The Case for Christianity -- Part 1

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by mclaren777, Apr 11, 2006.

  1. Perhaps. But would you agree that trust has to do with proof?
     
  2. No. If you need to make a "case" or provide some type of proof or need to seek any evidence, then your faith is as weak as possible.

    Trust also by definition means no proof, that's why the word trust exists; to know something will happen or someone will do something without proof that it actuall will take place.
     
  3. I know I don't have to open this thread if I don't want to but this feels like those Jehova's witnesses knocking on your door & trying to convert you.
     
  4. if you had proof there wouldnt be faith then would there?
     
  5. thats what it is. southern baptists are pretty bad
     
  6. For many people, faith and knowledge are seen as opposites. The more evidence you have, the less faith involved. The more bizarre and unbelievable the claim, the greater the faith. The greatest faith, then, would be the one farthest removed from reason or evidence.

    Two odd conclusions follow from this kind of thinking:

    First, apologetics—giving evidence in defense of faith—would actually detrimental to faith. Yet Peter tells us to always be ready to give a defense for the hope that is in us (1 Peter 3:15).

    Second, if faith and knowledge are inversely proportional, then the more evidence against Christianity, the better. Indeed, believing something you knew to be false would be a great virtue, biblically. God would be most pleased, on this view, with those who knew the resurrection never happened, yet still believed.

    The apostle Paul call such a person pitiful, however:

    "But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied." (1 Corinthians 15:13-14, 17-19)

    According to Paul, if we believe contrary to fact, we believe in vain and are fools.
     
  7. I don't think the point here is to convert anyone. I think it's to clear up some misconceptions, which is the majority of what non-believers (and even a good portion of Christians themselves) suffers from. Or are you guys happy to be missinformed, so long as you can continue to bash something you don't understand?
     
  8. You mean the arguments you 'didn't' listen to? Open your mind or get out.
     
  9. Its not necessarily all or nothing for all religions. Who is to say there aren't multiple ways to get to the same place?
     
  10. Religion.
     
  11. Either God exists, or He doesn't exist. It is the law of excluded middle--one or the other has to be true. They both cannot be true because of the law of non-contradiction, and they both can't be false because of the law of excluded middle. Simple. Either God exists or He doesn't exist.

    Did you notice, by the way, that both statements are religious statements? Now, maybe I don't know which one is true, but I'll tell you one thing, one of them is, which means there is such a thing, at least to some degree, as absolute religious truth. It is either an absolute that God does not exist, or it is an absolute that He does. One or the other.

    The stupid concept is the idea that all religions are basically equally true. The core beliefs of every mainstream religion are so varied that they all cannot be true. Hinduism teaches that Brahman (the surpreme being) is an undefinable, impersonal absolute and that there's no conceivable way to sin against him. Mormonism teaches that god was once a mortal man who somehow managed to elevate himself through rigorous adherence to moral principles. Yet Christianity teaches that God is both personal and loving. And that it's only through active trust in His son that you can be forgiven for the mistakes you've made.

    So as you can see, only one way can be the right way. And that's what Part 2 will focus on.
     
  12. if God made adam and even knowing they would eat the apple, regardless of whether or not it WAS their choice, how is he not ultimately responsible?
     
  13. Luke don't bable on (lol) about laws of logic, you don't any smarter for it.

    Nothing you said means that many religions can't lead to god. Sure it would be ironic if christianity and satanism led to god (I know I know, its just a silly example), but you only don't believe in pluralism because you think the Bible is the only truth, just because it says it is.
     
  14. Answer me this first:

    If you were to someday be given a sufficient answer to this question, would it actually make any difference? Like, would this restore you faith in God or in someway make you a better person?

    Because I have a feeling that you'd probably just find another excuse for your disbelief.
     
  15. You gotta admit, that was a horrible cop out.
     
  16. He's trying to annoy you because he's a piece of shit that doesn't respect anything or anybody.
     
  17. You're close, but slightly off. I believe the Bible is the only truth because I've seen/heard enough evidence to believe in it's divine authorship. And that's what we'll be covering in Part 2. So just hold tight.
     
  18. That's fine. He can be a piece of shit for all I care. I just want some honesty out of him. That's all.
     
  19. this question is what caused my disbelief, how can i have faith in something that pretends to be just and merciful when questions like this exist without any possible answers? now do you see why i keep bringing up the jesus telling peter his future example? its the important link that disconnects Gods time perception from the equation. finding a solid answer would no doubt make me rethink my stance, though one thing for sure is that i would never be a southern baptist again, even if i did get the answer i was looking for. im not looking for PROOF im looking for a legitimate reason to even have faith. the only answer i seek is just an EXAMPLE of why our entire existance and what happens therein isnt ultimately Gods responsibility. free will is not a good enough answer, because regardless, God still knows the future, and he knows it in a way that can be told to us. There is no just cause for your religion without a solid explanation.
     
  20. Fair enough. Then can I ask a simple favor out of you? Can you please, as clearly and accurately as you can, explain exactly what the question is. Because if I'm going to devote a significant amount of time into answering this, I really don't want you to criticize me for failing to understand it. And I'm sorry for asking you to do this (because I'm sure you've done it before), but I really need an official version. And you can just PM it to me when you're done.
     
  21. I will look forward to part 2.
     
  22. #72 mclaren777, Apr 11, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Anyway, I've gotta bounce. But please keep asking questions because it's important to me that your objections and issues are addressed. And there are other, even-more-capable members on here that can take over for me until I get back. And for those of you who still haven't listened to Greg's presentation, PLEASE give it a shot--you may be surprised by what you hear. <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>

    http://www.maximum-attack.com/TruthAndFaith.mp3
     
  23. excellent presentation. To those who said they dont want to listen to it, i suggest you do. Its not "another crazy lunatic mc777 video" or anything like that. Its actually quality and interesting to listen to no matter what you beleive.
     
  24. Can't say I'm surprised.
     
  25. am i going to hell?
     

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