This car is not the best...

Discussion in '2000 Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT' started by bmwm3gtr200, Mar 18, 2003.

  1. Re: This car is not the best...

    Well according to Car Magazine September 2002, page 127 the road car record was set by a Porsche 911 GT3 with Porsche test driver Walter Rohrl behind the wheel in a time of 7 min. 56 sec. I will presume that the most widely read, highly trusted, and Englands best designed magazine is correct with there numbers. Another nice tibit here, the flat out lap record of 6 min. 25.91 sec. was set by a Group C Porsche 956 during the 1983 1000 km race. The car was driven by Stefan Bellof to that lap time.
  2. #127 SwedeLBROCK, Apr 29, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Re: This car is not the best...

    I think you're wrong again...

    * 20,932 km. 7.17 sec = 172 km/h, Porsche GTR3-MR, Olaf Manthey, VLN 2002.

    * 20,832 km. 6.11 sec = 202 km/h, Stefan Bellof, Gruppe C Porsche 956, 1983.

    Check out for yourself.
  3. Re: This car is not the best...

    Okay, you go right ahead and presume all you want, I know it's not the fastest. Do you think that Porsche, despite testing and tuning ALL their cars around Nürburgring, never ran the GT2 there? And if so, why wouldn't it be faster than the GT3?

  4. Re: This car is not the best...

    I do think that the Porsche GT2 is faster around the Nurburgring. Did you forget that I said they think they can run a faster lap around the Nurburgring? I do know that there are cars that have run faster laps around the Nurburgring. That does not change the fact thought that the GT3 holds the road car record for the fastest lap. The Officials at the Nurburgring or some agencie like FIA are the ones that make the call as to whether a lap is an official record run or not. So until the officials say that another cars lap time is an official record attempt, and it beats the GT3's time, it holds the record. I am not saying that the times of the other cars are invalid though. They just were not official record runs.
  5. Re: This car is not the best...

    Go to your link, then find the Porsche GT3 time of 7 min. 56 sec. It is the one that is highlighted in yellow. Click on it and you will see that it has a German title that says:
    Rekord auf dem Nürburgring"

    I do not know German, but the first word looks very close to production, the second Record, I am not sure what auf and dem mean, but they are probably say something to the affect of holder, I will check with a friend of mine tommorrow to get a full translation though. While there are other car with faster times, none of them are called teh production record holder, so I think this may finally be the proof that you guys need to see that the GT3 is the official record holder.
  6. Re: This car is not the best...

    Rohrl is one of Porsche's own test drivers. Of course he's going to set a blistering time at the 'Ring, Porsche's home away from home track.

    The official timetable for the Nurburgring does indeed indicate that the GT2 and several other production cars have lapped the 'Ring quicker than Rohrl's GT3 time. The standardized testing is done by Sport Auto magazine, almost always with Horst von Saurma at the wheel. He set the following times:

    Murcielago: 7:50
    GT2: 7:46
    Zonda C12S: 7:44

    You have to remember that the Nurburgring is a long-ass track. 10 seconds is not a whole helluva lot of difference, particularly if the tests are done on different dates with different variables (track conditions, weather, drivers, etc.). For instance, Autocar test editors, on what must have been an ideal day while comparing the Focus RS vs. the Murcielago, were able to beat von Saurma's Zonda time by a fraction of a second in the Lambo.

    And that production car record set by Rohrl was done in '00. If you'll notice, he was quicker in a later test of the GT2.
  7. Re: This car is not the best...

    I speak german and it roughly means "Product presentation record on the Nurburgring". I think this means that the time of 7 min 53 second would be that fastest time for a stock production GT3 around the ring with Walter Röhrl driving it....but that was not the issue, was it?

    Look at the link again and you will find this (NOTE: it says "GT2"):

    * 7,46 = 160 km/h 2001 Porsche 996 GT2, Horst von Saurma, Sport Auto 2001.

    * 7,47 = 160 km/h 2001 Porsche 996 GT2, Walther Röhrl, 2000.

    What does that tell you?
  8. #133 bmwm3gtr200, Apr 30, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Re: This car is not the best...

    Once again, I never said the GT3 was faster than the GT2. Hell I even told you that Porsche thought they could run the ring quicker than the GT3, and as we have all seen on that site it is faster. So why the hell are you trying to prove to me the GT2 is quicker?

    What the issue is what car holds the official record. I found a link to the Car Magazine article from when the new record was set in the GT3: So until a reliable source shows another car to be the official record holder, the GT3 is the official record holder as far as any of us know. While it may be hard for you to understand that it is possible for a car to be the record holder, yet not have the best time I sill explain it to you. If the cars lap around the Nurburgring did not meet all the riteria for it to be an official record run, then the time does not count, officialy. This does not mean that the time around the track was not valid, but not official.
  9. Re: This car is not the best...

    So you had to be a smart ass about this too didn't you?
    Here you go again trying to tell people something they already know. Official times or not, who cares, the GT2 is faster around the ring. period. that's my only point and since you seem to agree with me then I suggest we leave it at that.
  10. Re: This car is not the best...

    So how did the thread go from the 800tt not the best, to debating about porsche 911 times?

    But if anyone cares about the topic of this thread, it comes down to:

    The 800tt isn't the Best Car. (overall)

    It was made for performance (accel. and handling) and it is one of the best cars at that. <A BORDER="0" HREF=""><IMG BORDER="0" SRC=""></A>
  11. Re: This car is not the best...

  12. Re: This car is not the best...


    (end of thread)
  13. Re: This car is not the best...

  14. #139 SwedeLBROCK, May 20, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  15. Re: This car is not the best...

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!THAT IS SO SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  16. Re: This car is not the best...

    Yep!! The 1000TT HAULS ASS!! After this the Viper is going to be pretty alone on the throne....
  17. Re: This car is not the best...

    What are you guys talking about? This isn't the 1000 tt thread. This thread is for discussing the 800 tt vs. any of the cars in my top ten list to see which one is the best overall car. So start talking about that stuff again, or quit posting in this thread.
  18. Re: This car is not the best...

    WTF!? Talking about the pot in the f**kin kettle!
    You're the one talking about Ford Model T and Volvos so don't even start....Ain't nobody agreeing with you in this forum anyway...
  19. Re: This car is not the best...

    I realy don't car if anyone agrees with me in this forum, most of you guys are 12 year old kid. Most of you who aren't 12 have the same respect for cars and view of cars as a 12 year old. All of my classmates in college that actually are in to cars, and all of my car buddies agreed with me that most of the cars on my list were better than the 800 tt, and it was unanimous that the Model T and Volvo 240 are better cars.
  20. Re: This car is not the best...

    Your cars buddies agreed with you? I sincerly apologize for thinking you were oblivious to all logic. Had I known your buddies agreed with you, I would have most certainly thrown in the towel right away. Thank you for throwing that oh so valuable tidbit our way as though it almost meant something.

    Normally I would post something about objective and subjective comparisons, but it's all been said. If you haven't been convinced that this is a stupid comparison (and I sincerely doubt that, in an entire college class, not one person would point out what an absurd comparison this is) then you never will.
  21. Re: This car is not the best...

    I will say this.

    In the way that BMWM3GTR200 has made this comparison, it's absurd.

    And for ppl to actually agree that a model t and volvo are better than a 800tt doesn't make sence.

    The problem is, ppl like that will take those cars, and say they're better than the 800tt for reasons, that the 800tt wasn't even made for. The 800tt was made to go fast on a track, 1/4, and street, and it's one of the best at that.

    Now, some ppl could argue, the model t advanced the auto industry, so it's better.
    The volvo is better, it's more reliable.

    They'll take those reasons, and say that's why those cars are better, BUT, what about performance?

    Obviously, the 800tt beats both cars at performance, but it's not better than those two?

    I'm not trying to say the 800tt is the best, IT ISN'T.

    But to say a model T or volvo is Completely better than the 800tt, b/c they are good in one catagory the 800tt isn't good in (like advance the industry, or reliability) doesn't make sence WHEN THEY IGNORE SOME CATAGORIES THE 800TT DOES BEAT THEM IN, like performance.

    And if they do acknowledge the performance catagory But say reliability and advance the industy is more important, then the comparison is absurd, b/c then they're weighing different catagories differently.

    But looking back at this thread, and comparison that's how its' been going, which is again Absurd.

    Now, IMO, i think cars should be compared WHEN THEY HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON. Not like this comp. where some cars are not even close to what the 800tt is, a performance car.
    Like the mags. do, compare performance cars to performance cars, lux cars to lux cars, trucks to trucks, exc...

    Don't do a comp like this where it's different catagories of cars, and say one car is better for one reason, and another car is better for another, different reason, WHICH is what has been happening in this thread.

    I mean, with the different arguments BMW makes for different car, you could say a Ford F150 is better than the 800tt because it can tow more, or a van is better, it can hold more ppl.

    The 800TT is a performance car, it is one of the best accel, and handling cars ever. If it wasn't made for other things like driver comfort, or advancing the auto really doesn't matter, b/c it wasn't made for it.

    The 800TT should really be compared with other performance cars, IMO

    <A BORDER="0" HREF=""><IMG BORDER="0" SRC=""></A>
  22. Re: This car is not the best...

    After reading your post I suddenly feel very old for a 12 year old.
  23. Re: This car is not the best...

    Its funny because all the cars that BMW boy put up this viper rips em all apart...and no its not the best its 1 of the best...
  24. Re: This car is not the best...

    Don't claim a car is the best when it isn't then. If you want to make that claim, then it has to prove itself better than any car, based on any reasonable scale. It's overall performance, driving experience, and it's impact on the automotive industry are pretty reasonable. This doesn't favor any one car, and give credit to the car for everything it has done.

    As for a Ford F-150 being better, maybe. It can haul a lot more, gets better gas mileage, and will run longer than the 800 tt. The F-150 also has more comfort, and many other fine points going for it. the 800 tt still stomps it for flat out performance, and the sheer novialty of the 800 tt is enough alone to out it in front of the F-150. See, if you look at everything, then it is fair. You guys never did that.
  25. Re: This car is not the best...

    Well, I didn't say an entire college class, I said the people that actually care about cars. Secondly, I was just saying I realy don't care what you guys think. I just find it very humorous that you all claim to be car buffs and what not, but you don't respect cars. The only thing you seem to think they are good for is going realy realy fast. Oh yeah! Then you sit there and talk about keeping comparisons subjective and objective, you are not even looking at what a car is supposed to do. How the hell can you have any view point that is half way close to being right, your only viewing a small part of the big picture.

    It is a fast car, who gives a #$%#. It can't get three kids to soccer practice while carrying grocceriecs, and run reliably forever. It can't go off road, can't drive around town with little thought, and there is no place that you will be able to legaly test this car besides a track. So you can choose between a car that is fun around town, not a headache and a half to drive, can carry what ever you need, and give you the thrills you want at any time, not just on the track. Or you can get the 800 tt, and only enjoy it at the track, and not be able to do anything else.

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