Re: The Viper kicks all foreign pieces of shts asses!!!!

Discussion in '2000 Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT' started by Guibo, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. Not to mention both MR2Guy and The Real Deal state that I should get out more and go see some...SCCA racing events.

    Well done, folks. This fish is fried.
     
  2. #77 SvSi Viper, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote from Guibo
    Not to mention both MR2Guy and The Real Deal state that I should get out more and go see some...SCCA racing events.

    Well done, folks. This fish is fried.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    threaldeal is my 13 y.o. cousin. I'd say he was rather pissed by your statements. I've explained to him the effect of his post. Though I'm not angry, he was just trying to help and he is right.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote from Guibo
    There is a 360 hp Cerbera 4.5? This is news to me. Are you reading (and THINKING), or are you just regurgitating?


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Cerbera Speed Six (360 bhp):
    http://users.compaqnet.be/carcollection/TVR/Specs/TVRCerberaSpeedSix.html

    Cerbera 4.5 (360 bhp):
    http://users.compaqnet.be/carcollection/TVR/Specs/TVRCerbera45.html

    My vision is a little blury. Do those power figures match? You don't think an extra 60 bhp would take the car from 4.4 to 3.9?

    P.S. Guibo, blow me!<!-- Signature -->
     
  3. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>P.S.: Blow me!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    This says it all. By saying this, he is obviously mad. Why? Because numerous people in this forum have proved him wrong. It's simple. If he was right, he would feel that that statement was not needed, and would not be mad. But since he is wrong, dead wrong, and was totally humiliated, he feels he must try and insult you.

    13 y/o cousin? Yea, right...Good excuse.<!-- Signature -->
     
  4. #79 EmmArTooGuy, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  5. Hold the cerbera vs viper debate...

    When I tried to edit my links in my post, it edited my post then placed it as SvSi Viper's post. I think we should let someone know.

    Back to our conversation.<!-- Signature -->
     
  6. Where are you Guibo? I thought a person with your level of knowledge would welcome more, in the form of knowing that there IS in fact a 350/360 bhp Cerbera 4.5 that has the following specs (converted to US units):

    270-271 ci V8

    360 bhp @ 6750
    379 lb-ft @ 5000

    0-60: 4.4
    0-100: 9.9
    1/4 mile: 12.4

    Also, most high performance FR drivelines with independent rear suspension put about 86% of the power to the ground.
    360 x 0.86 = 309.6
    That is why most people get 300-320 rwhp in their Cerbera 4.5.

    The 360 bhp 4.5L V8 was available first then then 420 bhp model came out a couple of years later. I don't think the 360 bhp model is still available but the 420 bhp model has only been around for a few years. Rest assured I WILL find number for the 420 bhp model. Also rest in the knowledge that after all this mud slinging I'm still man enough to post the test here even if the 420 bhp unit is slower than the Viper.<!-- Signature -->
     
  7. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>Where are you Guibo? I thought a person with your level of knowledge would welcome more, in the form of knowing that there IS in fact a 350/360 bhp Cerbera 4.5 that has the following specs (converted to US units):

    270-271 ci V8

    360 bhp @ 6750
    379 lb-ft @ 5000

    0-60: 4.4
    0-100: 9.9
    1/4 mile: 12.4

    Also, most high performance FR drivelines with independent rear suspension put about 86% of the power to the ground.
    360 x 0.86 = 309.6
    That is why most people get 300-320 rwhp in their Cerbera 4.5.

    The 360 bhp 4.5L V8 was available first then then 420 bhp model came out a couple of years later. I don't think the 360 bhp model is still available but the 420 bhp model has only been around for a few years. Rest assured I WILL find number for the 420 bhp model. Also rest in the knowledge that after all this mud slinging I'm still man enough to post the test here even if the 420 bhp unit is slower than the Viper.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    IŽm not going into debate if there has been a claimed 360 hp Cerbera 4.5, which by the way can be easily checked by emailing the TVR staff. Maybe there is, but I doubt it. Anyway it doesnŽt matter, as those numbers IŽve seen for tested Cerbera 4.5s for Autocar and Top Gear have been claimed 420 hp ones. It is widely known, as those pistonheads links also say, that there is no difference in performance between the 4.2 and 4.5, which means that their usable hp is about the same.

    Further, no, no and no that "330 hp" or "300-320 hp" is rwhp. Check again. It is already converted to flywheel hp. The dyno test IŽve seen had 250 DIN rwhp for the Cerbera 4.2, which means that particular car had (when divided by your somewhat correct conversion factor 0.86) into 291 flywheel hp DIN, 287 hp SAE (US). IŽd say (again) that the supposed average "330 hp" has an optimistic driveline loss factor, but of course the different cars vary.

    Hmm - your cousin was "right" in his assumptions in his post? This should turn out to be an interesting debate... <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif">
     
  8. On the subject of dyno testing the weather conditions are vitally important for the power output figure. A cold, high preassure day will result in vastly higher power figures (I have seen as much as 15% compared to bone dry very hot days). Just my tuppence worth. I think we should all agree and say theres barely fu ck all in it between the two, eh?
     
  9. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from SvSi Viper</i>
    <b>MR2Guy just believes what he wants to believe. What a shame...

    Those times were the factory claims. No read test of the Cerbera 4.5 has came even close to those times. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Of course not SVS,

    You know they have because I've sent you the #$%#ing test brains.<!-- Signature -->
     
  10. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from 200SXonsteroids</i>
    <b>On the subject of dyno testing the weather conditions are vitally important for the power output figure. A cold, high preassure day will result in vastly higher power figures (I have seen as much as 15% compared to bone dry very hot days). Just my tuppence worth.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Very correct. And just watch the engine power output drop when going up to higher altitudes as well. But when a dyno test deserving even slightest respect is done, it includes also a temperature, air pressure and even humidity measurements. From them it is easy to convert the hp reading into the standard measurement conditions, the "standard" meaning conditions in which the hp numbers we see in the ads are presented. All what still remains a mystery is the driveline loss percentage, if (and usually when) you measure the hp output from the rear wheels. But rear wheel horsepower is all that matters in the end. IMO manufacturers should start quoting rwhp in addition to engine hp, but oh well, they wonŽt, as higher hp number just sells cars better.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from 200SXonsteroids</i>
    <b>I think we should all agree and say theres barely fu ck all in it between the two, eh?</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    I would agree, if there wasnŽt so many folks (in fact the vast majority of folks), who blindly stare at claimed peak hp number, that in the final run proves to be pulled out of someoneŽs arse. This debate is a good example. ViperŽs engine in real life probably has about as much as half more horses than the average Cerbera 4.5. Yet on paper they seem to be relatively close (420 - 450). But if you just donŽt care about it, thatŽs OK.
     
  11. MR2Guy:
    Where does it say there's a 4.5 liter Cerbera with 360 horses in any of your links? You posted a link to a Cerbera Speed 6, which uses a different engine, and certainly isn't 4.5 liters. And that one is just about as slow as a Euro-spec Viper, LOL.

    Regarding question of RWHP vs. crank hp and variables in atmospheric conditions, READ the whole damn discussions I've posted. Or better yet, go to the pistonhead forum and do a search on "dyno" and "rolling road". These things are ALREADY factored in, in the final numbers given. Regardless, what the pistonheaders and Bearing are claiming hold true: there's hardly any difference between 4.5's and 4.2's.
    Autocar's 4.2 was quicker to 60 than their 4.5. In fact, it was every bit as quick as the 4.5 at any speed below 130 mph. The 4.5 was faster in top speed, but was trounced in the individual in-gear acceleration tests by the 4.2.
    Top Gear's test showed the 4.5 was quicker throughout the range, but still lagged in the in-gear tests. In any event, both 4.5's were pre-production units.
     
  12. And LOL, you guys are cousins? Why the hell didn't you say so in the first place? Judging by your user names and signatures, you guys sound like clones. Or puppets.
     
  13. #88 Guibo, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Anyways, check out Page 2 of one of the links I had already posted:

    "Did you read what I originally said? The loss of power you get from changes in pressure/temperature/humidity are COMPENSATED for by the rolling road back to standard conditions. I.e. if it was colder, you'll make more power than at the standard 20 (or 25 can't remember) degrees, and the "corrected" value will be marked down."


    http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=7352&f=6&h=0
     
  14. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Pilchard</i>
    <b>What car does Pamela Anderson drive? The Answer: Dodge Viper. No joke.

    OK SvSi Viper, and what disease does she have, hepatitis C so she can't be that clever can she?

    The best car in the world, viper, are you insane, 235 mph is not bad with turbos, a mclaren does it without so does a tvr speed 12 and a f50 gt. This car isn't badly priced either but no american cars are expensive. As for america being the best country in the world see if any other country agrees with you then ask all the inicent americans who are killed because of your ridiculous gun laws. An you, the best best person in the world, you've made 419 posts so it appears to me your a pathetic little man with to much time on his hands so he therefore sits on his fat arse all day eating and posting childish comments on the internet dreaming of a dodge viper.

    Best loser in the world more like.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whats with people like you?!? Thats absolutely pathetic! Go ahead, cry about my signature! Be a little whining baby for all I care. The fact it bothers you that much must mean you are absolutely retarded!

    Its kinda obvious that sig is to piss off people like you too, don't you think? Best person in the world: Me? I think that would have gave you a little clue. But than again, people like you do have issues...

    Amazing!<!-- Signature -->
     
  15. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Pilchard</i>
    <b>What car does Pamela Anderson drive? The Answer: Dodge Viper. No joke.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Ha! I thought the Viper was a madly oversteering (oversteering/understeering according to some here) untameable beast. Guess not.
    Hey, Pilchard. Why don't you pick on the other members here AGAINST the Viper with more posts than SvSi? [double standard]
     
  16. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from hathorn01</i>
    <b>This car is the best. Better than the Bugatti 4/16! In the report it even says 0-60 was achieved in 2.4 seconds. European cars are trash just like the Guks cars! No fukin way can this car be beaten, only by a better Viper. So take that you POS'es!!!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    you stupid #$%#.. maybe you should learn a bit about other cars, you see there are other cars besides vipers and corvettes and all the other american muscle cars. So if you knew anything you would know that those american cars are only good for drag racing which means all those cars can't turn for shit, on the other hand, the euro cars can actually turn and handle well like a normal car would and they can get immense power out of small engines. The euro cars don't need 8 litre engines to do the job!

    and by the way it's called the Buggati 16/4 veyron not 4/16 you #%$got
     
  17. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from M360</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from hathorn01</i>
    <b>This car is the best. Better than the Bugatti 4/16! In the report it even says 0-60 was achieved in 2.4 seconds. European cars are trash just like the Guks cars! No fukin way can this car be beaten, only by a better Viper. So take that you POS'es!!!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    you stupid #$%#.. maybe you should learn a bit about other cars, you see there are other cars besides vipers and corvettes and all the other american muscle cars. So if you knew anything you would know that those american cars are only good for drag racing which means all those cars can't turn for shit, on the other hand, the euro cars can actually turn and handle well like a normal car would and they can get immense power out of small engines. The euro cars don't need 8 litre engines to do the job!

    and by the way it's called the Buggati 16/4 veyron not 4/16 you #%$got</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Actually, if you knew anything about cars you would know that American cars handle good. Only made for drag racing? Pffft. Where did you get that crazy conclusion?!

    Read the other post about why the Viper has a big engine. You'll catch on. Just a matter of time.<!-- Signature -->
     
  18. I doubt it. I don't think M360 will ever get it.

    M360:
    It's not a matter of *needing* an 8.0-liter engine. It's a matter of preferring to do it that way. Obviously, you haven't a clue about why the Viper has an engine of that size anyway. (Do you even know? Tell us, I'm ready for a good laugh.)
    Last time I heard, the overall trend in Euro cars was to increase displacement through the years. Not necessarily to eek out more performance via stratospheric hp/l. And the ones that are up there are cars that (probably quite literally) cost an arm and a leg. Did the 360 Modena get more power over its 355 predecessor through simple increases in hp/l? Nope. What about the 575M compared to the 550? Nope. Each generation gets a larger engine, and for good reasons. (Reasons you'll probably never understand.)
    Sure, Euro cars can match the performance of an 8-liter V10. But the engine itself will either be turbocharged, supercharged, or will cost upwards of $30-50K, easily. And if that's the case (and it is), how can the case be made that the Euro engines are superior? I thought doing things cheaper with the same results is a sign of intelligent engineering. It's no less valuable than trying to wring 110 hp/l out of a 3.6-4.7 liter engine. And once you've done that, what kind of room is left for the customer to play around with? Almost none.

    M360 (and anyone else), take a look at the chart below and tell me what you think it means.
     
  19. yeah ok morons, i know why it needs a big engine and i'll jsut tell you breifly so that i shut you guys up... the viper needs big engine becuase then you get the torque that makes the car accelerate quickly at low rpm's! also it's good for modifying the engine and if your gonna say crap like the ferrari's engine can't be modded, well they can, but who would wanna mod the perfect engines... i'm not gonna bother explaining the rest... so anyways it's true about the american mostly being drag racers... you should know that european car focuses on making an overall good car while most american cars focus on making cars that have a powerful standing start, in other words, good for drag racing. Why do you think you see so many american cars beign dragsters and hardly any european cars being dragster! think about it, american cars focus more on drag racing then european cars!
     
  20. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>Caterham R500: Wolrd's fastest accelerating, true production car for under $100K USD. It also handles far better than a viper. And its cool because it has the sleeper effect. You would never think from the look or sound of the car that it could run 11s in the 1/4 mile. But when you think of the fact that it has the hp/lb of a 700 bhp moddified viper its no wonder that it is so fast. I believe certain TVR Tuscans are faster stock than the viper, for under $100K. If the viper suits you then thatsa great, go buy one. Don't make wild claims about its performance. The viper is fast but not the fastest. But then its not me that you are fooling, only yourself. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    WRONG!!!

    This is the fastest accelerating car ever, and its just under £40k

    (Tiger Z100WR)<!-- Signature -->
     
  21. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Guibo</i>
    <b>Haha, those numbers are pretty funny. Because no production Cerbera 4.5 has ever matched those numbers. Not even close, for the quarter mile. Not even the preproduction Cerberas tested by Autocar and Top Gear got anywhere NEAR that 11.9-second figure. And your top speed estimate is still not faster than the top speeds verified for the Viper.

    If you want to read more about the Cerbera's handling characteristics, just read the article below. It seems to me that understeer was the least of their worries.
    This is not to say that the Cerbera is a bad handling car. It's just tricky and requires an exceptionally skilled driver to harness its abilities.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    erm..... he meant the Cerbera SPEED 12<!-- Signature -->
     
  22. #97 Veyronman, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Guibo</i>
    <b>Veyronman, let's see the pics. Go do a search of the car on the pistonheads forum and let me know what you find.

    Here's a taste of what's to come:
    http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=4745&f=6&h=0

    Of course, you might see one running around Blackpool. What color was it?



    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    1.I dont carry a camera around with me just incase i see sumthing good.

    2.Dark Reddish (kinda a tiny hint of grey).

    3.AGAIN: why would they have a price if they weren't in production???!

    <!-- Signature -->
     
  23. #98 Guibo, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Veyronman</i>
    <b>1.I dont carry a camera around with me just incase i see sumthing good.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Niether does anyone else who has claimed to have seen a production Cerbera Speed 12 out on the public streets.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Veyronman</i>
    <b>2.Dark Reddish (kinda a tiny hint of grey).</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Wonderful. Funny how the only Cerbera Speed 12's seen in public are either red or silver. RED or SILVER. Despite the fact that the car is (theoretically) available in any color a customer could care to wish for. Yet the only color anyone seems to have seen is...red or silver.


    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Veyronman</i>
    <b>3.AGAIN: why would they have a price if they weren't in production???!

    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Beats me. Why would TVR advertise 420 hp for the Cebera 4.5 when none have ever achieved that power rating on a rolling road? These are questions you'll have to take up directly with TVR. And if it's anything like the response they gave to mclaren777, it'll basically say that none have ever been built yet. Let me know if you'd like me to post his email response from them. I think he still has it from 2-3 weeks ago.

    In the meantime, here's something for you to think about:
    1) There are only 5 McLaren F1 LM's in existence. How do we know they exist? Because one has already been tested for 0-100-0 by CAR. If you look up "supercar rally" on the Internet, you'll see one driving through the streets of Europe.
    2) There are only 3 Ferrari F50GT's in existence. How do we know they exist? There's video footage of one at www.nsxfiles.com. All three, with corresponding serial numbers, are accounted for at the www.barchetta.cc website. The fate of the 3 "tubs" is accounted for as well.
    3) The ultra-rare (possibly only one?) 250 GT SWB with shark-nose body by Bertone has been documented online and in print.

    4) No one can find any evidence, photograph, or road test of a production Cerbera Speed 12. DESPITE the fact that it should theoretically waste almost anything out there, due to its advertised hp-to-weight ratio.


    Here's a direct challenge to you:
    1) Find a road test of the Speed 12. Post it here, via scanning the actual article, or posting a link to an actual road test. Not some overview of the car's potential capabilities or technical virtues.
    2) Find a club meet photo. There are many TVR club chapters througout the UK. A few meet monthly. Obviously, any TVR Cerbera Speed 12 owner would like to show up to celebrate the pinnacle of that company's lineup, and would appropriately be afforded celebrity status.
    3) 2 members of the Prodigy have ordered the Cerbera Speed 12. Post a link or photos of them with their cars. If you know of a good Prodigy discussion forum, this may be a good place to start.



    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Veyronman</i>
    <b>WRONG!!!

    This is the fastest accelerating car ever, and its just under £40k

    (Tiger Z100WR)</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Is that the one that blew its engine after the 2nd or 3rd run?

    What was the quarter mile time for that car? 0-150? Standing mile?
     
  24. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Veyronman</i>
    <b>erm..... he meant the Cerbera SPEED 12</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    erm...no he didn't. These were the figures he was coming up with, Viper v. (Cerbera):

    "0 mph to:
    30 mph 1.9 sec (1.6)
    40 " 2.4 " (2.1)
    50 " 3.0 " (2.6)
    60 " 4.5 " (3.9)
    70 " 5.4 " (4.8)
    80 " 6.5 " (5.6)
    90 " 8.4 " (7.3)
    100 " 9.8 " (8.4)

    0-100 ft 2.9 sec (2.7)
    0-500 " 7.0 " (6.6)
    0-1320 " 12.7 " @ 112.4 mph (11.9 @ 120.8)"

    Are you saying he meant that the Cerbera SPEED TWELVE does the quarter mile in 11.9 seconds, and can only manage a 3.9-sec 0-60? LOL, that is pathetic for a car with power to weight ratio.

    He was talking about the Cerbera 4.5.


     
  25. #100 M360, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Guibo</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from M360</i>
    <b>yeah ok morons, i know why it needs a big engine and i'll jsut tell you breifly so that i shut you guys up... the viper needs big engine becuase then you get the torque that makes the car accelerate quickly at low rpm's!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Bwahahaha!!! That's it? If you'll look at my question again, I'm referring to WHY it has an engine of that size and with that many cylinders. Hint: GM.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from M360</i>
    <b>Why do you think you see so many american cars beign dragsters and hardly any european cars being dragster! think about it, american cars focus more on drag racing then european cars!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Have you ever heard of the Finnish Hot Rod Association? Here's just one of the cars that compete in that group:
    http://www.lauparacing.com
    They also run a whole host of cars, from GM F-Bodies to Volvos to M3's, even top fuel dragsters like we have here in the States. Dragracing is also fairly popular in the UK. Look up "Santa Pod" on the Internet.

    If American cars can't handle, how do you suppose that the castrated Viper is only 1 second slower than the 360 Modena around Nurburgring? It had an inferior power-to-weight ratio, and no ABS brakes like the Modena. And the 385-hp Z06 is .2 seconds quicker than the 360 Modena at Hockenheim. How do you explain that?







    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    ok just becuase there are drag racers in the UK and in Finland doesn't mean all of europe drag races! what i'm saying is that there are a lot more drag racing cars then there are in europe! A lot more. and I guess the Z06 would be faster then the modena, but only by .2 seconds! wow that's amazing except that it has about 110 more ft lbs of torque has a bigger engine as well, (about 2 litres more) also i never said the Z06 doesn't handle well so why are you bringing up the corvette, i just said in a previous post that american cars handle like crap becuase i was just pissed off about the title of this thread why I think is the other way around.

    About the viper, that car is more of a racing car then the ferrari, the ferrari is more of luxury car with amazing power and beauty, it wasn't originally made to be a racing car, ferrari has made other cars for that(F40 and F50) yet the viper is 1 second slower considering all that power and so called awesome handling from the viper and it's still slower. I definatly thought that the viper would win considering it has more power, torque and accelerates quicker in some test then the modena, and that's too bad if it didn't have ABS, obviously the designers failed to realize ABS brakes are better then disc brakes. I guess it took them a couple of years to realize that so their putting ABS on the vipers now.

    BTW, there are goin to go 4 F50 GT's made, there are only 3 now though but the last one is being built.
     

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