Re: When will the americans learn how to make engines??????

Discussion in '2003 Ford Mustang SVT Cobra' started by snyper, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Lido Iacocca</i>
    <b>No i'm saying if you had money buy an SuperStalion a COBRA R a BOSS before talking that the americans WHO DEVELOPED THE V8 don't know how to make engines !!!

    It IS pathetic !!!!

    The BMW was a company who allways had make a lot of cars with problems and NOT reliable.

    Every German knows that. You're thinking that Volkswagen, Audi, Mercedes and BMW are all the same.

    The great German companies in reliability are Audi and Mercedes.

    The BMW has an entire BAD history throught the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

    If they make an engine with more this or more that ask them to explain why the Germans allways prefer the Porsches, Mercedes and Audis.

    And ask too why every mustang Cobra had allways been faster then every BMW. The car of this forum was made to be cheaper and fast in America.

    But if you had a lot of money take a look in the Mustang BOSS, SuperStalion, COBRA R forums before coming here.



    Ps.: Ask to BMW why they best cars are V8s and not their marvelous 6-cyl...</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    You have got to be the biggest idiot in the world!!! You think that BMW's are unreliable? How many Bimmers do you see in a mechanic shop compared to the millions of Fords inside the mechanic shops with problems that give even top mechanics headaches. BMW is one of the top quality automakers in the world. Everybody knows this and everbody also knows that Ford's are poorly constructed pieces of crap. i.e. Pinto, Tempo, Topaz, Cougar, etc... The only half decent quality build of Ford is the Town Car and even that has a low resale value. And the M3 which is a 6 cylinder will kill any mustang since it has a 0-60 time of 4.7 seconds you moron! </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->


    I asked this question first, Mr. !

    I'll make it easy for you ANSWER...

    1. How many '50s and '60s BMWs are you seeing in Deutschland (Germany) ?

    2. Why in München (BMW homeland) we can only see Mercedes and Porsches of '50s and '60s ?

    3. Are the old realiable BMWs where ?

    4.Why TODAY Germans prefer Porsches and Mercedes ??

    5.The guy who started this was talking about a 900hp engine as an example of "how the americans can't build good engines! And how they [the americans] are Pathetic". So I ANSWER [to him] "Pathetic is your question" !

    6. Is this 900hp BMW engine reliable ?

    7.Show a 390hp, 390 lbs (torque) european car by 36,000 dolars (or the equivalent in euros !)

    This is technology ! Is easy to do a fast car with 36,000,000.00 (per car) !

    These ARE the questions to YOU answer !!!

    Ask to a German ! Get a phone if you don't know any !

    The answer is easy, germans prefer Mercedes and Porsches by only one reason RELIABILITY !

    So if the far you ever went in your life was Disneyland, please, don't call me idiot !

    We can see in US, Mustangs, Camaros, Bel Airs from '60s and '50s in the streets !

    Ps.: Next time READ, (at least, this entire note) before you call me idiot, HERR BMW !

    Answer all questions not just one, WE'RE WAITING FOR YOU !.

    READ before answer, HERR BMW M, HABEN SIE '50s MEISTER BMW STÜCKIM ? (It's a joke, let me know if you can understand !)<!-- Signature -->
     
  2. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Krazy383</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Krazy383</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from CHECKERS3333</i>
    <b>ok... americans like the SOUND of a huge engine as well as the hp and speed. what would you all rather hear when u rev up your car??? a squeal from a 3.6liter 420hp 911 turbo, or the roar of an 8.0 liter 450 big block viper gts??? yea...

    THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT!!!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    The Viper GTS is a beautiful car but don't embarass yourself! Goliath was bigger than David but who ended up winning, that's right it was David. The sound of the Viper means nothing when it gets blown away buy the 911 turbo and GT2. The 911 GT2 does 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and the viper does 0-60 in about 4.0 seconds. And this just in a drag race, if we take both cars to the race track the GT2 will outhandle the Viper making it look so weak. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->where was BMW in the GTS class at LeMans? too scared to enter? Who won the GTS class? the C5-R...and where was Porsche in the GTS class? nowhere to be found....LMP class? who cares! they are all non production (limited) production vehicles anyway, but still the Cadillac LMP, even being a new participant placed in the top 10, which is pretty good for a new entry, and the team has already started work on the new Cadillac LMP...so dont gimme any of your BS about how BMW is the be all n end all of cars...and ya wanna compare a $180,000 GT2 to a $80,000 GTS? lets compare... 0-60 times 3.6(GT2) 4.0(GTS)...lateral acceleration 1g(GT2) 1g(GTS) 1/4mi times 12.0(GT2) 12.2(GTS)...is there a huge difference in performance to warrant a huge difference in price? no...and everyone knows it, except for blind prudes with their heads up their own asses...why dont we compare the Viper Venom 800TT to the GT2, both similar in price, but alas, the 800TT still costs @ $20,000 less...</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    One more idiot added to the pool of the other idiots! I didn't start the Comparison of the GTS vs the GT2. If you read the other posts your brain would recollect that Checkers3333 said that "the Viper GTS sounds better and thus it's a better car the 911 Turbo" And you can see what my reply was: 911 Turbo and GT2 not only out-accelerate the Viper but also outhandle it. And your an even bigger idiot than Checkers3333, because your comparing the 800TT (a Tuned Viper) to a stock Porsche? I can bring Porsche tuners (Ruf,Gemballa) to beef up the already mighty GT2 and then we'll see if the 800TT can handle the GT2 on a race track.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->stop whinning cause BMW/Porsche didnt have the balls to enter the GTS class...and stop calling other people names to compensate for yo mama being an idiot for having such an idiot for a child...funny thing is RUF and Gemballa dont make Porsches that compete with the 800TT on the strip or the track, so by all means, please call them up and have them make u 1 and wait for a year or two for them to do it, pay @ $700,000 and have them screw u up your a$$ and let them make u their bit*h like u already are...i think u better calm down, before u really get reamed...and take some anger management classes</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Once again, I didn't bring up the 911 Turbo/GT2 comparison, Checkers3333 did. And the arguement wasn't about a race circuit. It was about two 2 stock cars and which one would win. Checkers boy "out" of nowhere said that the Viper would kill the 911 so I gave him some facts. 911 GT2 :0-60 in 3.6 seconds, great handling etc..
    Viper GTS: 0-60 in 4.0 seconds, inferior handling relative to the GT2. Now if you can't agree with facts than I'm afraid you're living in a dream world! So don't twist around the subject into something unrelated.<!-- Signature -->
     
  3. wow r u guys insomniacs, i mean i went to bed at three and u guys already have a huge list of responses, ok to get started i might as well say there is no European car which hass those numbers, i will admit to that, but when has a European car needed so much power to do that????, never. ok i will admit that a F1 engine may be a bit out of the spectrum, but it still is a helluva thought, and there are some american engines out there that r better, but on a whole European and Asian engines are made to a better quality and to a better standard, that is just an observation, but i will like to say that as much as i dislike american autos, i do respect that this is a vast improvement on the old SVT Cobra, and this is a place where car buffs come to pay homage to incredible cars, let me say that this aint at the top of my list but that it is definitely on there, peace<!-- Signature -->
     
  4. bmw m....ur a moron buddy.

    first, where did i say they needed a oil changer??? thats right fck stick i didnt, they are in there becuz of tranny engine electrical steering, pump failures, shall i go on...the list is bigger

    Second, after reading ur post on Ford and Mercedes, is just down right funny and shows u know nothing of cars...Ford was made cheap and easy becuz for one reason...every one was supposed to own one, ford invented the assembly line, mass production, and guess what if u look at the mercedes and ford sales, as a all time number, ford did great hell, they probably triple if not ten times the car sales in overall time...not everyone could afford a mercedes becuz they were expensive hand built limited number of cars, ford was mass produced cheap and everyone had one. Ford's car costed less than 500 dollars when it came out, hell i even think they costed like 100dollars, he made them cheap so the workers of ford could have one and everyone in america could have one....Not oh let us build them by hand and this and that...Without ford companies wouldnt be alive today.

    Third(about reliability):
    have u noticed the kind of people that drive a ford and a bmw...Ford people in the farms and outbacks and deserts and working enviorments and families and teens and just plain working people...their idea of the car when they get it is that its supposed to do everything, go over deserts and through the woods...hell people dont even wash it becuz its going to get dirty, its the work horse of the family, hence its beat up and put in harsher conditions than other cars, hence why they might come in with a broken this or that, becuz the owner didnt know better...
    Now when people get bmw's they dont even drive them in the fcking rain becuz they are affaird that they are going to get it wet or somebody is going to break it or crash into them...the oil is changed reagulary for fear of paying a outragous costs of imported parts, and having a certified bmw only mechanic...hell they wont go more than 5mph over a speed bump for fear of having to aline it...also do u think their parents are going to let a teenager drive the family luxo i think not, they give them the cheaper car and they go and run it into the ground...its like they dont want to go fast they dont drive it in the rain or snow, they dont drive it on dirt roads or in the boons or through corn fields kind of a job...its not the work horse, its taken care of becuz its considered a luxo car, when compared to other cars.

    Now when u think about it its true, ur not going to drive a 45k car into the ground and make it the work horse of the family, but u can do that to a 20k american car, becuz if u add up the qualities of the two american cars u can get for the beamer it equals the quality of the beamer, the american car is the work horse while the beamer is the baby. So who is going to last longer the work horse that is beatn to shit or the one that is treated like a baby??

    Oh yea, as for any bmw beating a ford out, lets see a 35k beamer beat a roush mustang stage 3, or a saleen s-281, or how about a mustang cobra for 31k? thats right no beamer costs that much and can equal the performance....bwtf vipers out hold any bmw on the market out excellerate...and so forth.

    One more thing before i put u down some more, the Viper vs. the Porshe 911 argument...dude the porshe pulls a 0-60 time of 3.6 vs the 4flat of the viper...but do u know what happens after that? thats right the viper wins to 100 and beats the porshe to th 1/4mile has a faster trap speed, and guess what in one mile it does 169mph compared to the lagging 150's of the porshe, and third it beats the awd porshe around a track...think im lying, Motor Trend 1997 issue of the high-speed shoot-out when a viper and porshe and ferrari and vette supra 3000gt nsx-t were all compared...viper took 7 out of ten tests...with the other 3 coming in second...one of them was the Track times, viper won and beat the ferrari, and another was 1/4mile slalom skidpad...shall i go on to see how it embarressed the proshe.

    Sorry buddy, america tought u how to build cars, and we still teaching u today.<!-- Signature -->
     
  5. hey, bmw m there are no import fees on the m3 in north amarica. maybe just the freight but that if for other shit. the nissan skyline for example is not sold in north america so if you wanted to get one then you would have to put the fees when getting it from japan. btw 0-60 times are #$%#ed up. for the m3 i've heard from 5.5 to 4.5s. the magazine companies should do like 5-10 runs and make list all the times they got, not the best one.
     
  6. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from FuriousZ28</i>
    <b>American V8's not only get more power, but they also get a crap load better gas mileage, and for at least 20 grand less. You could put an extra 10,000 to tottally pimp them out and the luxury and power would way surpass any beamer</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Another pointless arguement. Why buy an American V8, when I can buy a lawn mower for $1000 and tune it to burn your Mustang. Plus I save $25,000. Who cares about comfort when you have a powerful accelerating lawn mower smoking the tailpipes of the stang. A lawn mower with 1500 bhp, best bang for your buck! <!-- Signature -->
     
  7. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from FuriousZ28</i>
    <b>BMW M yea I'm new to supercars.net, i just found out bout this site , but you ahve to admit American does make cars better for less, they are cheaper, more fuel efficent, more power, you can customize for more lux and still less money, and they're just sexier on the outside. BMW's are nice, but american is gooder, plus i mean come on dude, i'm assuimng you live in america, you gotta support us, theres no way i would sell my camaro, and go foreign.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    It's one thing to be patriotic and it's another thing to sacrifice something better. The M3 has better handling, braking, technology, luxury, safety. Read road and track, car and driver, and watch motor week if you don't believe me. There many other magazines, sites, and shows that support this statement.<!-- Signature -->
     
  8. Name a STOCK car that can beat the 1964 Hemi Dodge Dart in the 1/4 mile?..............still waiting.................The McLaren F-1 may come close.

    Granted it isn't the best around a track, but it was made in 1964.
     
  9. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from 84FordMan</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Cobra351R</i>
    <b>you european guys thinking bmw is god are morons. who started mass producing cars in the first place, i think the mans name was henry ford. anyways, why would anybody pay 30-40k for a bmw m3 when they can pay 32k for a cobra that out performs the m3. now, onto the engine. i think america was the first country to start mass producing v8 powerplants. but yah, bmw is god, you morons are paying for a name. btw, every svt dohc 4.6 is hand assembled in dearborn michigan, so send the craftmanship up yer ass. and if americans dont know how to build motors, check out the nhra circut, see how many european engines are there......nhra engines pump out exess of 4000 hp you stupid european #$%#s! peace

    p.s. the mustang was the first pony car, and will be the last</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Great another brain washed American moron to deal with! I'll tell you why a myself and a majority of the world would take an M3 over a Mustang Cobra: The M3 has luxury, class, beautiful design, build QUALITY (something no Mustang will never have), ride quality, amazing european handling (another thing Mustangs will never have), quality engineering. Plus the M3 GTR Strassenverion does 0-60 in 3.4 seconds and it will annihilate the mustang cobra.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Great another brain washed European moron to deal with! I'll tell you why myself and a majority of the world would take a Jaguar XJ220 S TWR over a M3: The XJ220 S TWR has luxury, class, beautiful design, build QUALITY (something no M3 will ever match), ride quality, amazing British handling (another thing M3 will never have), quality engineering. Plus the XJ220 S TWR does 0-60 in 3.3 seconds and it will annihilate the M3.

    *Yawn*
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    I never said I wouldn't take an XJ220 over an M3. Cobra351R said "why would anybody get an M3 when you can get a Mustang Cobra for the same price?" and thus I told him why. So before you bring up the Jaguar XJ220 out of nowhere like a bafoon, read the post carefully!<!-- Signature -->
     
  10. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Cobra351R</i>
    <b>plus bmw m.....if you wanna talk tuners, like your strassen version or whatever who cares, lets talk about the boss mustang.....0-60 in 1.9 seconds, check up on that big guy, you might learn something</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Can your Boss Mustang even be driven on a normal road. You see in the real world roads have twists and turns and it's not all about mindless drag racing. The M3 GTR will destroy the Boss Mustang on a race track.<!-- Signature -->
     
  11. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from CHECKERS3333</i>
    <b>ok... americans like the SOUND of a huge engine as well as the hp and speed. what would you all rather hear when u rev up your car??? a squeal from a 3.6liter 420hp 911 turbo, or the roar of an 8.0 liter 450 big block viper gts??? yea...

    THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT!!!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    The Viper GTS is a beautiful car but don't embarass yourself! Goliath was bigger than David but who ended up winning, that's right it was David. The sound of the Viper means nothing when it gets blown away buy the 911 turbo and GT2. The 911 GT2 does 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and the viper does 0-60 in about 4.0 seconds. And this just in a drag race, if we take both cars to the race track the GT2 will outhandle the Viper making it look so weak. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->where was BMW in the GTS class at LeMans? too scared to enter? Who won the GTS class? the C5-R...and where was Porsche in the GTS class? nowhere to be found....LMP class? who cares! they are all non production (limited) production vehicles anyway, but still the Cadillac LMP, even being a new participant placed in the top 10, which is pretty good for a new entry, and the team has already started work on the new Cadillac LMP...so dont gimme any of your BS about how BMW is the be all n end all of cars...and ya wanna compare a $180,000 GT2 to a $80,000 GTS? lets compare... 0-60 times 3.6(GT2) 4.0(GTS)...lateral acceleration 1g(GT2) 1g(GTS) 1/4mi times 12.0(GT2) 12.2(GTS)...is there a huge difference in performance to warrant a huge difference in price? no...and everyone knows it, except for blind prudes with their heads up their own asses...why dont we compare the Viper Venom 800TT to the GT2, both similar in price, but alas, the 800TT still costs @ $20,000 less...<!-- Signature -->
     
  12. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Cobra351R</i>
    <b>kind of funny the top 3 0-60 times on this site are owned by "american" engines.......not to mention the top speeed(i hate giving chevy props)</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Tuned cars mean shit! Anyone can tune a Civic or a Cavalier to perform 0-60 in 2 seconds. Let's talk stock: The Dauer 962 Lemans does 0-60 in 2.6 and it hold's the top accerleration on "this" site (sorry to burst your bubble). The 962 Lemans is also the fastest road going automobile on the planet and it still kicks the ass of "tuned" American cars. Take the 962 to a race track (the real man's race) and it will humiliate any tuned American "Muscle." The McLaren F1 Limited does 0-60 in 2.9 and it is also a "stock" car. Name one, just one American stock car that can beat the F1 or the 962 Lemans in either aspect: Handling or Performance????
    Anybody???????? I didn't think so......... <!-- Signature -->
     
  13. you seem to have forgotten what the title of this thread is, but anyways. give me a stock 03 cobra for 36k.......now, let me put almost 1.5 million into it, then lets see. i sure as hell hope those cars are the fastest made for the price they cost. who in their right mind could even afford one of those. and btw, your the one who was talking about your tuned m3's.
     
  14. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Cobra351R</i>
    <b>correction, the dauer 962 has 720 hp, and runs 2.6 seconds to 60. not to mention the fact that it is twin turbo. i would like to talk about to car right below it though, the chevy ZL1 concept, 0-60 in 2.7. dauer also weighs 1000 lbs less than the camaro, now granted, the camaro is a concept, but it shows what american technology can put out.

    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    The Camaro ZL1 is not stock, buddy!!! The 962 is! You can tune any car to reach the performance of the 962. Let's tune the 962 and see how it performs shall we? And let's set acceleration aside for a second. Normal Camaro's can't corner properly, and God forbid witnessing the ZL1 (with all that bhp and torque) attempt to corner. It would be like playing a game of Russian Roulette (a disaster waiting to happen). Don't get me wrong, Camaro's a great cars but you're a #$%#ed up idiot to think that a class B car could even be used in the same sentence as a class AAA SUPERCAR!<!-- Signature -->
     
  15. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Krazy383</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from CHECKERS3333</i>
    <b>ok... americans like the SOUND of a huge engine as well as the hp and speed. what would you all rather hear when u rev up your car??? a squeal from a 3.6liter 420hp 911 turbo, or the roar of an 8.0 liter 450 big block viper gts??? yea...

    THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT!!!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    The Viper GTS is a beautiful car but don't embarass yourself! Goliath was bigger than David but who ended up winning, that's right it was David. The sound of the Viper means nothing when it gets blown away buy the 911 turbo and GT2. The 911 GT2 does 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and the viper does 0-60 in about 4.0 seconds. And this just in a drag race, if we take both cars to the race track the GT2 will outhandle the Viper making it look so weak. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->where was BMW in the GTS class at LeMans? too scared to enter? Who won the GTS class? the C5-R...and where was Porsche in the GTS class? nowhere to be found....LMP class? who cares! they are all non production (limited) production vehicles anyway, but still the Cadillac LMP, even being a new participant placed in the top 10, which is pretty good for a new entry, and the team has already started work on the new Cadillac LMP...so dont gimme any of your BS about how BMW is the be all n end all of cars...and ya wanna compare a $180,000 GT2 to a $80,000 GTS? lets compare... 0-60 times 3.6(GT2) 4.0(GTS)...lateral acceleration 1g(GT2) 1g(GTS) 1/4mi times 12.0(GT2) 12.2(GTS)...is there a huge difference in performance to warrant a huge difference in price? no...and everyone knows it, except for blind prudes with their heads up their own asses...why dont we compare the Viper Venom 800TT to the GT2, both similar in price, but alas, the 800TT still costs @ $20,000 less...</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    One more idiot added to the pool of the other idiots! I didn't start the Comparison of the GTS vs the GT2. If you read the other posts your brain would recollect that Checkers3333 said that "the Viper GTS sounds better and thus it's a better car the 911 Turbo" And you can see what my reply was: 911 Turbo and GT2 not only out-accelerate the Viper but also outhandle it. And your an even bigger idiot than Checkers3333, because your comparing the 800TT (a Tuned Viper) to a stock Porsche? I can bring Porsche tuners (Ruf,Gemballa) to beef up the already mighty GT2 and then we'll see if the 800TT can handle the GT2 on a race track.<!-- Signature -->
     
  16. 84FordMan,why do you put words into my mouth, asshole? I know that Lexus is a division of Toyota that why I said that Toyota=Lexus. And your specific mumbo jumbo about "putting the battery in the back seat" has no merit to it. And yes VW OVERALL constructs quality cars that are built to last. You don't know shit. And I'm an adult and I've had contacts with many top grade mechanics whom you "a supposed mechanic wannabe" would have to bow down to. And yes, Japanese automobiles are of the highest quality and they do give the least problems. OVERALL American cars give mechanics the most "business" and your an idiot if you deny that. And your point about depreciation means nothing because if you consider the % of depreciation between Euro and American cars, American cars have the higher depreciation rate. I'll give you an example: The Civic EX and the Grand Am are in the same price range (brand new). A 95 Grand Am costs $4000 CND while a 95 Civic EX cost $8000 with the same mileage and condition. This is just one example out of thousands I could give. And if you wanna debate this let's go outside this forum and see if anyone will agree with you about how the McLaren F1 is not a stock vehicle. In that case all Honda's are tuned, because Mugen provides parts for them. Your comment is ridiculous.<!-- Signature -->
     
  17. I'd just like to point out a few things.

    BMW's cost a lot. American cars generally do not.
    These two manufacturers are in two leagues that are completely different.

    Sure every American company could put out 60k cars like BMW that never break down and put out amazing horsepower/handling, but then what car would you drive with your $7/hr job at McDonalds?

    The point is, you pay for what you get.

    And a $35k machine running 390hp/390tq is pretty impressive.
    Find a BMW that price that puts out that power/performance.

    And why are you comparing an M5 or M3 gtr to a Mustang?
    You can't compare a car that costs more than $10,000 than the other car can you?

    It's not that American companies cannot put out higher horsepower ratings, its just that if they did they would have to price it like BMW and lose a niche in the market. Who would pay $60k for a super-mustang? Not anyone I can think of...but 35k for a Saleen-like SVT product? Sure.

    The thing I can't stand about import people is how they fail to see the market American manufacturers are aiming for, it's NOT the same market as BMW, Lexus, Mercedez etc., and it really amazes me how stupid they are to compare a Nissan Skyline to a Mustang...the cars are in two completely different leagues in terms of price.

    Oh yea, did I mention you pay for what you get? You pay more, you get a faster, better car. It's not that complicated...of course the BMW M5 is better, it costs almost twice as much!

    Now ask yourselves is the performance twice as good? I hope so since the price is twice as big?

    Import people are so blind to the reality of things that they ignore these basic things that change the argument completely.

    Oh yea, I own a 99 Mustang GT and a 97 Prelude, so I'm not hating on imports, just some of the idiots who try to defend them, and end up making an ass of themselves.
     
  18. Americans can make nice engines but Japanese better.
    Stronger and more reliable.
    Check a Supra only 3 liters and standard 320hp and a immense torque.
    You can even get 1000hp!
    The mustang cab get about 800hp with this.
     
  19. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Cobra351R</i>
    <b>correction, the dauer 962 has 720 hp, and runs 2.6 seconds to 60. not to mention the fact that it is twin turbo. i would like to talk about to car right below it though, the chevy ZL1 concept, 0-60 in 2.7. dauer also weighs 1000 lbs less than the camaro, now granted, the camaro is a concept, but it shows what american technology can put out.

    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    The Camaro ZL1 is not stock, buddy!!! The 962 is! You can tune any car to reach the performance of the 962. Let's tune the 962 and see how it performs shall we? And let's set acceleration aside for a second. Normal Camaro's can't corner properly, and God forbid witnessing the ZL1 (with all that bhp and torque) attempt to corner. It would be like playing a game of Russian Roulette (a disaster waiting to happen). Don't get me wrong, Camaro's a great cars but you're a #$%#ed up idiot to think that a class B car could even be used in the same sentence as a class AAA SUPERCAR!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->ahhh, class b...uve spent too much time on the playstaion, kid, u really need to get out more and maybe see an SCCA race...talk about torque and turning, then what about the 962s torque!? please...<!-- Signature -->
     
  20. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from 84FordMan</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b>84FordMan,why do you put words into my mouth, asshole? I know that Lexus is a division of Toyota that why I said that Toyota=Lexus. And your specific mumbo jumbo about "putting the battery in the back seat" has no merit to it. And yes VW OVERALL constructs quality cars that are built to last. You don't know shit. And I'm an adult and I've had contacts with many top grade mechanics whom you "a supposed mechanic wannabe" would have to bow down to. And yes, Japanese automobiles are of the highest quality and they do give the least problems. OVERALL American cars give mechanics the most "business" and your an idiot if you deny that. And your point about depreciation means nothing because if you consider the % of depreciation between Euro and American cars, American cars have the higher depreciation rate. I'll give you an example: The Civic EX and the Grand Am are in the same price range (brand new). A 95 Grand Am costs $4000 CND while a 95 Civic EX cost $8000 with the same mileage and condition. This is just one example out of thousands I could give. And if you wanna debate this let's go outside this forum and see if anyone will agree with you about how the McLaren F1 is not a stock vehicle. In that case all Honda's are tuned, because Mugen provides parts for them. Your comment is ridiculous.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Waaaa... waaaa...waaaa.

    *Yawn*

    Funny how you avoid the extreme depreciation of Euro cars by saying American cars have a higher depreciation rate while backing it with no facts.

    It appears I am going to have to break this down for you. Lexus is a division of Toyota. Lexus is made at different plants than Toyotas. Different parts go into Lexus. Lexus is built up as a luxury vehicle, so COMMON SENSE and logic dictate more effort and attention are going to be directed at a Lexus than a Toyota. Right? Right.

    Your still using a British car to defend your German love? Tsk tsk.

    As for which cars give the more business, I guess I'll just turn a blind eye to all those Jap and Euro cars I worked on this pay period (2 weeks) and focus on the 6 American cars I've worked through this pay period and say your right, because that's what you want to hear, right? Can you ever be wrong? Maybe not in your own little world.

    Hey, I am an adult too! Woah!! Small world huh? I honestly don't give a rat's ass who you've ass kissed. You could of said you knew Enzo Ferrari himself and I would still say, so? I work with several master techs, I know several mechanics at the local speed shop that can make anything high performance, but do you see my jaw dropping? Do you see me in awe? Do you see me caring? No.

    The saying is, it's not who you know, but what you know. I may be a "wannabe" mechanic, but at least I am a mechanic. At least I work, at least I get my hands dirty, and at least, I know what the hell I'm talking about.

    You are a shame.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Once again you fail to READ what I have written! I wrote that LEXUS is a Division of Toyota, but I guess you were too blind to see it. Yes, Lexus makes higher quality luxury cars then Toyota, but Toyota is the Parent company of Lexus, but I guess your too retarded to realize that. Like Toyota, Honda has Acura, Nissan has Infiniti, and Ford has Lincoln; all of whom are luxury division of their respectable parent companies. And I don't give a shit about how greasy and smelly you get because I have more sources than you do, and I can guarantee that you know shit compared to them. Oh and one car company you failed to mention as a "quality" builder is Volvo. For years Volvo has been rated as one of safest and longest lasting automobiles on the market. You "claim" you fixed up a couple of cars and you base your decision on that alone? Buddy, you gotta go to a broader perspective and see what other mechanics have experienced. I've spoken to dozens of mechanics who have "ALL" rated American Cars as the OVERALL inferior constructor. I'm not speaking of specific cars because the Viper is hand made and beautifully done and the Corvette is also constructed with pecision. I'm looking at it from an overall perspective. And if you're so damn patriotic that you can't agree that there are infact better cars out there then what "Americans" make, then you're a lost misguided cause. I bet if they offered you a koenigsegg CC or Bugatti Veyron 16/4 or McLaren F1 you would rather take some relatively inferior American car instead. For Shame! And the only reason you defend Jaguar is because it is "Ford" owned which goes to further show how you're Patriotism has blinded you from seeing FACTS. You think that I just love German cars? Sorry to burst your bubble but my favourite car is the Koenigsegg CC (a Swedish car). If you have any #$%#ing balls lets take this outide of the American Propaganda forum to the general comparison forum, and we'll see who agrees that American cars last longer, and have a higher quality build than European and Japanese cars. The only nation that constructs relatively inferior cars compared to the U.S., is Korea (Hyundai, Kia, Daewoo). Judging from your Avatar (crossing out the Ferrari) your mind is obviously full of shit. The Ford GT40 is still a concept car so don't get an orgasm yet. And if you think that the GT40 can kill a Ferrari, you wait till the F60 comes out. <!-- Signature -->
     
  21. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Lido Iacocca</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Lido Iacocca</i>
    <b>No i'm saying if you had money buy an SuperStalion a COBRA R a BOSS before talking that the americans WHO DEVELOPED THE V8 don't know how to make engines !!!

    It IS pathetic !!!!

    The BMW was a company who allways had make a lot of cars with problems and NOT reliable.

    Every German knows that. You're thinking that Volkswagen, Audi, Mercedes and BMW are all the same.

    The great German companies in reliability are Audi and Mercedes.

    The BMW has an entire BAD history throught the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

    If they make an engine with more this or more that ask them to explain why the Germans allways prefer the Porsches, Mercedes and Audis.

    And ask too why every mustang Cobra had allways been faster then every BMW. The car of this forum was made to be cheaper and fast in America.

    But if you had a lot of money take a look in the Mustang BOSS, SuperStalion, COBRA R forums before coming here.



    Ps.: Ask to BMW why they best cars are V8s and not their marvelous 6-cyl...</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    You have got to be the biggest idiot in the world!!! You think that BMW's are unreliable? How many Bimmers do you see in a mechanic shop compared to the millions of Fords inside the mechanic shops with problems that give even top mechanics headaches. BMW is one of the top quality automakers in the world. Everybody knows this and everbody also knows that Ford's are poorly constructed pieces of crap. i.e. Pinto, Tempo, Topaz, Cougar, etc... The only half decent quality build of Ford is the Town Car and even that has a low resale value. And the M3 which is a 6 cylinder will kill any mustang since it has a 0-60 time of 4.7 seconds you moron! </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->


    I asked this question first, Mr. !

    I'll make it easy for you ANSWER...

    1. How many '50s and '60s BMWs are you seeing in Deutschland (Germany) ?

    2. Why in München (BMW homeland) we can only see Mercedes and Porsches of '50s and '60s ?

    3. Are the old realiable BMWs where ?

    4.Why TODAY Germans prefer Porsches and Mercedes ??

    5.The guy who started this was talking about a 900hp engine as an example of "how the americans can't build good engines! And how they [the americans] are Pathetic". So I ANSWER [to him] "Pathetic is your question" !

    6. Is this 900hp BMW engine reliable ?

    7.Show a 390hp, 390 lbs (torque) european car by 36,000 dolars (or the equivalent in euros !)

    This is technology ! Is easy to do a fast car with 36,000,000.00 (per car) !

    These ARE the questions to YOU answer !!!

    Ask to a German ! Get a phone if you don't know any !

    The answer is easy, germans prefer Mercedes and Porsches by only one reason RELIABILITY !

    So if the far you ever went in your life was Disneyland, please, don't call me idiot !

    We can see in US, Mustangs, Camaros, Bel Airs from '60s and '50s in the streets !

    Ps.: Next time READ, (at least, this entire note) before you call me idiot, HERR BMW !

    Answer all questions not just one, WE'RE WAITING FOR YOU !.

    READ before answer, HERR BMW M, HABEN SIE '50s MEISTER BMW STÜCKIM ? (It's a joke, let me know if you can understand !)</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Nobody gives a rats ass about the past! There are many present supercars today that did not even exist in the 50's, 60's, and 70's does that mean that they are unreliable too? The McLaren F1 has no past but it's the king of Super Cars. Bugatti had a miserable past of bankruptcy and mismanangement, but does that make the 16/4 Veyron unreliable. And in case you didn't know, Companies improve their cars after their start-up years. BMW is currently one of the top quality automakers in the world. How about we examine the quality of a Ford when they first started making automobiles. It's quite sad how a 100 year old automotive company has difficulites building quality when BMW who is 50 years old can outclass,outhandle,out-perform, and outengineer any crappy Ford. Mercedes and Ford started constructed automobiles in the same era and I give respect to Mercedes who's a company of prestige and class unlike Ford.<!-- Signature -->
     
  22. to Lido Lacocca

    to answer all your questions in a reletively short set of answers, here ya' go.

    why germans prefer MB or Porsche than BMW is like why italians go for Lambo or Ferrari than Maserati.

    were you can find a BMW under $40,000 that can perform as well as the SVT......you won't. why? coz' it takes more to build a "normal" Bimmer than a suped up Ford.

    why you can't see any 50's or 60's BMW's that r good compared to Ford cars of the same time? personally, BMW sucked ass then, but they improved greatly through the years.
    Ford, in the other hand....had about 50 years more experience in makeing cars...so use the common sense there.

    and about engines?
    well, both groups make great engines....the americans have the muscule car era to prove that, the euros have all the super cars that have existed.

    americans have drag racing and euros have F1 and endurance racing.

    u can't bash BMW just because u dont see that many of its older cars or whether a german dude said so.....u look at the issue directly, to base ur opinion.
    <!-- Signature -->
     
  23. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Krazy383</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BMW M</i>
    <b><!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Cobra351R</i>
    <b>correction, the dauer 962 has 720 hp, and runs 2.6 seconds to 60. not to mention the fact that it is twin turbo. i would like to talk about to car right below it though, the chevy ZL1 concept, 0-60 in 2.7. dauer also weighs 1000 lbs less than the camaro, now granted, the camaro is a concept, but it shows what american technology can put out.

    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    The Camaro ZL1 is not stock, buddy!!! The 962 is! You can tune any car to reach the performance of the 962. Let's tune the 962 and see how it performs shall we? And let's set acceleration aside for a second. Normal Camaro's can't corner properly, and God forbid witnessing the ZL1 (with all that bhp and torque) attempt to corner. It would be like playing a game of Russian Roulette (a disaster waiting to happen). Don't get me wrong, Camaro's a great cars but you're a #$%#ed up idiot to think that a class B car could even be used in the same sentence as a class AAA SUPERCAR!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->ahhh, class b...uve spent too much time on the playstaion, kid, u really need to get out more and maybe see an SCCA race...talk about torque and turning, then what about the 962s torque!? please...</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Playstation? I don't even play video games. That's probably how you learned the class system, but I learned through reading not playing unlike you. And judging from your posts(which twist around the subject and have no relevance to what I say) you're the one who's probably in elementary school.
    <!-- Signature -->
     
  24. y don't we all just think about it for once.........some ppl like american cars no matter what......they'll say everything to anything thats not american.

    on the other hand, some ppl like euro cars no matter what...and will do the same coz' if its not european.

    it all comes down to money, folks. while 1 dude gets a fast stang, another gets a slower bentley.....he can afford it, who cares if the bentley guy gets beaten.....its what the ford guy cant buy.

    im a euro person myself....but im not gonna' say ford, or chevy or dodge sucks.....coz' they don't. id buy 1 of them coz i have the money. but if i could afford a ferrari or benz or a BMW z8....hey, id go for it.

    and for all the guys who keep asking were the good 50's and 60's BMW's r......they just pretty much started then.....kudos to ford for making good cars that last 30+ years....kudos to BMW for matching it 50 years later.

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  25. EliteWolverine and 84FordMan, you guys can bum eachother all day. I'm ending this now and taking it to the main comparison forum where you 2 patriotic loving bum chums will get flamed!<!-- Signature -->
     

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