Re: Logical FACTS as to why a Honda is not powerful.

How much do you pay for your average Ferrarri, not even a high spec one ?
They are usually well out of most people's price range, costing like three times or MORE for one than a Corvette.
Why would you buy a Ferrarri which produces a mere 400something horsepower when you could buy a Corvette for 1/3 the cost (or an oldschool muscle car for like 1/30 the cost) and spend not even a third the price of the Ferrarri making it perform better and go faster ?

Are you able to tell me specifically how it's making it more unreliable by putting a performance roller camshaft with more efficient intake and exhaust timing to generate more power, titanium conrods, hypereutectic pistons, etc etc ? (I'll get to the point shortly that with an engine like the LS1 you don't even need to do the above because it already has the goodies.) The fact is that it's really not.

Chevrolet are obviously taking into account the fact that its Corvette is not JUST a purpose built supercar, because it's not nearly as expensive as a real italian supercar. It's more of a common production muscle car than an supercar. Chevrolet are being smart and configuring their engines to produce horsepower at set target levels to meet their criteria. I mean they go by consumer figures on how popular Corvettes are and making marketing decisions as to whether it's worth it to have titanium valve retainers, or sodium filled valves and all the hot up bits, and they design a high spec engine that's reliable and produces high power levels.

The LS1 engine produces a lot of power for its very mild cam timing setup. The engine also has cast hypereutectic pistons (very light & strong) and sintered connecting rods. Not to mention its 6 bolt crossbolted mains. From memory it even has a forged nodular iron crankshaft. What this means is you can throw in a very wild camshaft configuration and do some pretty heavy mods... and the engine CAN HANDLE IT without breaking.

Love to see you do that stuff to a Ferrarri engine. Oh hang on, Ferrarri engines weren't designed to be modified and hotted up because they're close to operating as well as they can. The other thing is that Ferrarri don't have some top secret material found on an asteroid or something, they use the best of the same tried and true materials that have been used in engine design for the last century.

Anyway, back to work, I shall continue this discussion later.<!-- Signature -->

 

Oh really? Is that why when Road&Track tested the NSX vs Z06 they got...

Better Skidpad: Z06
Faster Slalom: Z06
Faster Lap Times: Z06
Observed Fuel Economy: Z06
EPA Rated Fuel Economy: Z06
Weight distribution: Z06

And by the way, factory specs from both Honda and Cheverolet even show the Z06 to be 47 lbs LIGHTER
NSX: 3164 lbs
Z06: 3117 lbs

I'll give you specific numbers and magazine issue when I get home. It's not the first time the Z06 outperformed the NSX in EVERY performance catagory. You might want to educate yourself before you open your suck. IT MUST REALLY HURT TO SEE YOUR UNEDUCATED STEREOTYPES COME CRASHING DOWN. But facts are facts.

What the hell is a Honda Beat? I'm talking about the lightest performance PRODUCTION CAR, being the S2000 and the heaviest current American performance car being the 2003 Mustang Cobra. The Cobra weighs about 30% more. <!-- Signature -->

 

the same old american stupid - motive!
yeah right! honda sucks! no kidding!
ok listen to this!
MANY MANY PEOPLE FROM AROUND THE WORLD LOVE TO HATE THIS CAR!!!!
Stop comparing this value for money killer(the 2002typeR) with your 5litres monsters! thats stupid and even a young stupid virgin hungry for a good f*ck could understand this if you stopped her on the road and explain it to her!
what if i take my CBR (600cc, it's a superbike for the brainless) and stop at a red light next to any american-european-asian car??? i would certainly kick his ass out of his mouth!!!! talking about hard time kicking!! but then again it not wise to compare a superbike to any car! is it???
and you know what????
that superbike only costed around 10000$! thats nothing!!
see again guys when you by some brain!!!

 

It seems you misunderstand my point about turbochargers increasing displacement. As you said, a turbocharger forces air into the cylinder at higher pressure, resulting in more air getting into the cylinder per cycle. To equalise this the ECU will tell the injectors to put more petrol into the cylinder with it, thus displacing more fuel/air mix. A good way to look at it is as boost comes on, your engine is increasing in displacement as though it were going from 2 litres up to 5 litres as it increases in revs and boost.

And if I had to have a choice for an engine in a vehicle, it would be the largest displacement possible, later modified to have a turbocharger on it. Why ? Because I am not in the slightest bit interested in a 10% loss in handling ability.

Why is this ? Because I am not a race car driver. I am a car enthusiast who drives his car on the road and races people at the traffic lights & the night drags. In these situations handling is pretty irrelevant because you're going straight ahead. I've already explained this to you once. A big old muscle car or otherwise large engined car can be bought for very cheap and modified on the cheap to be a lot faster than your typical "drag" jap car with a small displacement motor. This is because the engines are designed and built to produce huge amounts of horsepower, and then due to emission standards they are restricted with small intake porting and poor flowing exhaust systems, and poor cam timing. Sometimes even the heads are designed with small ports to keep the emissions down. These things are all easily and cheaply corrected and instantly your large displacement engine is easily producing between 350 to 400 horsepower at very low revs. I know this is the case with the Ford 351 Cleveland, and it's most probably the same with Chrysler Hemi engines and the 350 Chev. The 351 Cleveland in the '78 XC Cobra Falcon produced somewhere in the range of 215 horsepower when it came out, and with new intake manifold, big 4 barrel carby, performance cam and extractors + nice exhaust it would produce nearly 400 horse. It goes without saying that a big block V8 engine with the same treatment would produce even more power.

I'm sure a nice car with light chassis etc that can handle really well wouldn't suffer too badly from having a larger displacement engine that's slightly heavier. The performance gain of a larger displacement engine easily outweighs the half a second slow down in cornering, if you are even needing to corner fast.

I could go on all day about it, but the point is that big old and new muscle cars are damn good for their price range because they are mostly very cheap to buy and the above can be applied to them to produce huge amounts of power and piss all over the ricers at the traffic lights. It's simply a more intelligent choice to buy one if looking for performance for your money. (Plus they actually serve a purpose if you're ever needing to tow a trailer).

To the guy who loves his american cars I apologise if I come across as putting down american cars, I love them thousands times more than I do jap cars, it's just that I'm sick of people retorting to my anti jap campaign saying american cars are crap etc. I'm not really interested in that as I said before, because I'm a big fan of aussie muscle cars. Not to say the american counterparts aren't damn good. I'd much rather come for a cruise in your Camaro than a japper any day. There is nothing wrong with American manufacturing techniques, they make high quality stuff over there because the customers demand high quality. Chevy and Ford and Chrysler wouldn't haev survived for so long if they weren't producing damn good vehicles. Which brings me back to the point that the people who ruin their american cars and have them break down all the time are idiots. I wasn't saying all american muscle car owners are idiots, just the ones who #$%# up their own cars due to a lack of respect for them.

It's either that, or the guy who said americans cars were badly manufactured is right... And I don't think so, that's not possible. They wouldn't still be making cars today if that were the case. Like I said, it comes down to specific cases of morons who don't get the oil changed frequently enough and have their engine wear out with constant thrashing etc.

Anyway enough rambling on from me, I'm supposed to be doing an assignment. Laters<!-- Signature -->

 

Nihilist, you make great points and i'm in agreeance when you say that nobody appreciates the v-8. As far as I'm concerned, and from what i've seen here in Indiana, everyone was all about any car with a v-8 till that god-awful fast and the furious movie came out. then everyone thought imports were great.
To get a Civic to perform like a v-8 takes tons of money. For me though, give me an old 350 and no import will beat it and i'll do it with half the money you'll spend on your import.

P.S. By any import i don't mean Skylines, 80,000 dollar Supras or RX-7's, or any other car not available in the states.<!-- Signature -->

 

<!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from FrankGrimes</i>
<b>Nihilist, you make great points and i'm in agreeance when you say that nobody appreciates the v-8. As far as I'm concerned, and from what i've seen here in Indiana, everyone was all about any car with a v-8 till that god-awful fast and the furious movie came out. then everyone thought imports were great.
To get a Civic to perform like a v-8 takes tons of money. For me though, give me an old 350 and no import will beat it and i'll do it with half the money you'll spend on your import.

P.S. By any import i don't mean Skylines, 80,000 dollar Supras or RX-7's, or any other car not available in the states.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

I agree man, no import even attempts to race me when the hear my car from a mile away, and see the 4inch cowl hood. They also just no better when they see my SS too! <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif"><!-- Signature -->

 

Well that's true, I know about japanese dudes and their drift racing. They're pretty damn crazy doing that crap.
I've seen the Initial D cartoon series as well, anime thing about that kind of stuff.

I don't believe a lot of people do it over there, just a few groups of nutcases. They don't even do it very fast, as I've watched real videos of that stuff. They go quite slowly.
The other thing is, drifting is the slowest way to corner, grip driving is a lot faster.

Anyway, you don't drift a car around corners in real life, you drive it around to work and town and home etc, and race people every now and then. So having a car with a big motor is cool in those situations.
(By the way, I'm sure a Corvette would be quite capable of mean drift driving, as would lamborghini with its V12 engine).<!-- Signature -->

 

I think that the person who posted above me, TomW? missed the point of Torque.

The Z06 has done a 3.9 0-60, but we'll keep it conservatif at 4 even. It has roughly 400 lb*ft of torque and 400 horses.
On the other hand, the 360 has 400 horse, and 275 lb*ft of torque.
It does a 0-60 in 4.4 secs.

BTW, a few days ago I saw a 69 Camaro with a 302. Also, I saw a 67 Shelby Cobra 427 with blue paint w/. white stripes! Pretty sure its a replica though. But still, it's so loud. It was passing me, and I made a U Turn to try to follow it, but I got stopped by a red lite.

Personally, I get more excited by those than by any Lambo, Ferrari, et al.

Also, I think that a Car lover who only loves cars from one part of the world can hardly call himself a true car lover. <!-- Signature -->

 

Re: CO$T

Well when you were talking about your bike doing the 1/4 mile in under 11 seconds....who cares! Its a bike! When it comes to crotch rockets it comes down to power to weight ratio. You stick a 600cc+ motor on a bike that weighs about 400 lbs. or so of course the thing will fly! If you were to stick a V8 in one of these imports the thing would fly like there is no tomorrow. The reason why they only have 4 bangers in them is because 4 bangers get better gas mileage then a big V8. I own a 2002 Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V. To fill my gas tank up with Sunoco Ultra 94 when the car is on fumes it only costs me $15. The car has a tiny gas tank but it lasts me about a week maybe a week and a half. I was to put the same amount of gas into a V8 that would last it about....a few days. All this talk about VTEC's *which is no big deal, all it is is a marketing gimick to have dumb kids to buy the cars because its has a cool name to it* and V8's is pointless. There is no way on god's green earth that any 4 banger out there would be making 1000+hp on all motor. What the 4 bangers need for performance are the usual Turbo/superchargers, and nitrous for its biggest performance gains. But I'm getting off the subject. The point is, 4 bangers will always be good for gas mileage, and street racing. V8's are true performance. They are for professional racing. Yest they are also very good for street racing as well. But pretty much the only good Honda's out there would be S2000, and the NSX *which is a V6 mind you* as for stock Civic's being race cars....they are hardly in the same class as a race car. They are race cars for kids who can't afford really for real race cars such as the Mustang Cobras, Camaro SS, and WS6 Performance Packaged Trans Ams. Now those are race cars!

 

All of this stuff of race cars. Every car ever made is potentially a race car. A lot of manufacturers have their one make series'. The Civic Type-R is raced in the BTCC. Thereforew, it is potentially a race car. Ie this race car stuff means sh*t.

On Ferarris. They look like porn on wheels. They post good track times. They cost a lot and have exclusivity. They are sh*t everyday cars. They are badly made and pop like firecrackers. Ask any 355/360 owner. Their windows only open and shut when they want to. Bits fall off. and they RUST LIKE SH*T. Wouldn't mind having one though.

One of the arguments in use here is price/performance. (Ie my 20 year old v8 monster will beat your £16000 brand spanking new honda)

Well, I got a 200sx S13 (1.8 16v turbo with fooked bigends). best 0-60 for one is 6.2 seconds. Not bad for £2000 eh. Put another £1500 under the bonnet and ya got over 300BHP. Hows that for price/performance.
Or, get a 250cc kart for £1000. 0-100 in 5.0 secs. Beat that with any car (or bike) ever made.

 

Okay, dude, listen up: How about you go flame the retards who compare a Z06 to everything else or a Civic to everything else and are serious about it before you criticize me. I REALIZE it's a dumb comparo., and that's the freakin' point. A point lost on you, it appears.

The bike argument that I keep bringing up is a rebuttal to people who think that their Mustang or Civic is the fastest thing in the world.

Anyway, I took my daily driver Accord to the dealer today for a service. And, while I was waiting, I sat inside the Civic Si hatch. I've already driven it, but just sitting inside it and shifting thru the gears was a lot of fun. It made me think that if I were to replace the car, I would actually consider getting that car.

You can't even compare Civic's shifter to the Mustang. The Mustang's shifter and clutch is not as bad as those car mags make it out to be, but it can't compare to either the Type S Acura or the Civic hatch.
I dunno, to me, just basically driving around town, rarely seeing any twisty roads, little things like shifter feel and clutch takeup can really influence how much fun you have in the car.

but on the other hand, the Mustang has that V8 roar. In fact it wasn't too dissimilar to the Superformance 427 Cobra with side pipes that I saw the other day. It was so nice, and Loud!

 

The shifter does suck. I put in a steeda, the thing has the shortest throw, doesn't miss 3rd, and you can shift as hard as you like w/o damaging the tranny. A shifter does not make a car. You can't make the honda roar like my car, but I can make my car shift as good as any out there for $170.

 

Even the Civic Si and of course the NSX get very high marks for their "smooth" shifting. To me that doesn't make or break a car. As hoseman said, it's a cheap and easy fix.

 

There is no such thing as a car comiing stock that is prefect in every way shape and form *except for the Saleen S7* but anyways....yeah thats all hunky dory that the Si shifts smoothly but your forgetting one thing....its performance blows!!! My Spec V is not only less then a Si but its faster in every way shape and form and definatly looks a hell of a lot nicer then the Si *that hting looks like a box with wheels mixed with some dog shit* So you can have your smooth shifting car I go for performance!

 

I do agree that comparing a Z06 to a Civic Type R is absolutely rediculous. If someone doesn't already know that, you're wasting your time.

 

any body who likes this car is a retard, my vette will smoke it

 

Leave it alone you stupid r!cers. your cars suck

 

Grow up.

Tom

 

PS: could you possibly enlighten me (and others) on why a RWD car is inherently a better dragracer than a FWD car (I know why they handle better, FWD cars are too nose-heavy, is that the same reason?). My friend told me something about weight transfer. But I contend that in the snow, a FWD car is better b.c. of traction (weight over drive wheels), and this I know from experience, but then why wouldn't it be better in dragrace situations?
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Sorry if this was answered already(I just skipped through pages like 2-4 because they all looked the same some assholes were discussion some shit about some car),but I had to .It's easier to push than pull,right? ok so when you put the all the power into the rear of the car it's pushing(but also losing more power which will remain a topic for another discussion)but it makes it slightly faster because when the front wheels are doing the work they're pulling as opposed to pushing.

 

I honestly to say this is the most INTELLEGENT forum on this site. I can't believe what I'm reading. My love for V8's and hatred for imports has to do with what Nihilist was saying, but obviously not as educational wise, since he is an engineer. And of course, my post has nothing to do with the bikes, only cars. But my father is a mechanic and owns his own shop, so as a young child i spend all my time reading his books, not the crazy hard ones, but the reasonable ones. Thats when i found out that V8's were my thing. After a while of researching, i've discovered the one i wanted: Mustang GT 5.0. Simply because of what Nihilist said: Cheap and u can do as much to it as an import. This car has a lot of aftermarket parts available. Don't get me wrong, I said V8's, I love Trans Ams, since my dad has 2, Camaros and vettes. But for the most arguments u recieve besides the intellegent ones here, people like imports because of hype. Mostly because of fast and the furious. Most people only like cars because of its name. I agree with R6, i rather see a shelby, or a 396 SS, rather than a ferrari. those classics are more rare than ferraris. I can go to a dealership and see a ferrari, but where can i go to see an actual not replica, 67 Shelby GT-500KR. You understand my point. One more thing, hey Yamaha R6, i just got a decent job that pays well, and the only thing on my mind is getting a bike. I was thinking about a GSX-R 600, but then i started checking out the R6's. I would like ur opinion on it, i want the red and black one. THanx. Peace

 

I honestly to say this is the most INTELLEGENT forum on this site. I can't believe what I'm reading. My love for V8's and hatred for imports has to do with what Nihilist was saying, but obviously not as educational wise, since he is an engineer. And of course, my post has nothing to do with the bikes, only cars. But my father is a mechanic and owns his own shop, so as a young child i spend all my time reading his books, not the crazy hard ones, but the reasonable ones. Thats when i found out that V8's were my thing. After a while of researching, i've discovered the one i wanted: Mustang GT 5.0. Simply because of what Nihilist said: Cheap and u can do as much to it as an import. This car has a lot of aftermarket parts available. Don't get me wrong, I said V8's, I love Trans Ams, since my dad has 2, Camaros and vettes. But for the most arguments u recieve besides the intellegent ones here, people like imports because of hype. Mostly because of fast and the furious. Most people only like cars because of its name. I agree with R6, i rather see a shelby, or a 396 SS, rather than a ferrari. those classics are more rare than ferraris. I can go to a dealership and see a ferrari, but where can i go to see an actual not replica, 67 Shelby GT-500KR. You understand my point. One more thing, hey Yamaha R6, i just got a decent job that pays well, and the only thing on my mind is getting a bike. I was thinking about a GSX-R 600, but then i started checking out the R6's. I would like ur opinion on it, i want the red and black one. THanx. Peace

 

I honestly to say this is the most INTELLEGENT forum on this site. I can't believe what I'm reading. My love for V8's and hatred for imports has to do with what Nihilist was saying, but obviously not as educational wise, since he is an engineer. And of course, my post has nothing to do with the bikes, only cars. But my father is a mechanic and owns his own shop, so as a young child i spend all my time reading his books, not the crazy hard ones, but the reasonable ones. Thats when i found out that V8's were my thing. After a while of researching, i've discovered the one i wanted: Mustang GT 5.0. Simply because of what Nihilist said: Cheap and u can do as much to it as an import. This car has a lot of aftermarket parts available. Don't get me wrong, I said V8's, I love Trans Ams, since my dad has 2, Camaros and vettes. But for the most arguments u recieve besides the intellegent ones here, people like imports because of hype. Mostly because of fast and the furious. Most people only like cars because of its name. I agree with R6, i rather see a shelby, or a 396 SS, rather than a ferrari. those classics are more rare than ferraris. I can go to a dealership and see a ferrari, but where can i go to see an actual not replica, 67 Shelby GT-500KR. You understand my point. One more thing, hey Yamaha R6, i just got a decent job that pays well, and the only thing on my mind is getting a bike. I was thinking about a GSX-R 600, but then i started checking out the R6's. I would like ur opinion on it, i want the red and black one. THanx. Peace