Re: Americans are sometimes........

Discussion in '2000 Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT' started by Guibo, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. You made a claim too…I saw no proof.

    That Italian was dialect. Sardinian actually.

    Ma se voi che parlo l’italiano giusto fami sentire il vocabolario tuo. Scometto che non hai capito nianche la metta di quell che ho scritto. Tanto, propio tu non capisci nianche l’inglese che scrivo perche sarai qualche lecafava. Ma sei tu sei propio paisano e sei lo stesso cosi pazzo c’avro vergonia anche io. O mi rispondi in italiano o ti chiudi il becco del mio italiano.
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  2. gsolinas:

    Is the 360 Modena in a lower class than the Viper?

    Are you going to stand by (and support) your claim that I'm only 12?



    Where's the evidence of the Barchetta hitting 186 mph?
     
  3. Guibo
    The GTS has trouble keeping up with the Modena which lacks power compared to the 550 and even more so with the 575. I agree that the 550 isn’t the best accelerating Ferrari but I’d like to see a stock GTS take it on a long stretch of road, and even R&T claim the 575 will have more power than the 550 and better aerodynamics.

    I hope you aren’t saying that the two engines are the same? You would be only playing into exactly what I said.

    LOL gutted Viper? I love this…”Dyno tests please” LOL. All of a sudden it is a valid argument. Cute.

    Proof Road & Track May 2002 page 132. Enjoy.

    You made claims about road legal tires not me with the Mclarens. And I know that it was tested on road legal tires but the record breakers were on slicks.

    And I’ve already stated I agree with jcazz (who apparently is my Siamese twin LOL) that the 360 is in fact in a lower class and that the flagship Dodges should be compared to flagship Ferraris.

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  4. Dove è la vostra prova? Il guido maledetto, si deposita giù. È il mio italiano abbastanza per voi? Forse in inglese completamente non capite me… indovino che nessuno di noi è corretto. Nessun uso che discute, non se non che. <!-- Signature -->
     
  5. I’m glad that arguing with me has been amusing. It’s nice to see that I made learning fun for you. But it seems kind of strange that my posts are considered nonsense and bullshit coming from the same guys that claim Dodge’s superiority over Ferrari by taking the top of the line “best stock Dodge money can buy” and comparing it to the lesser powered and in some cases even out dated of the Ferrari models. Even then under certain aspects of comparisons the Dodge has fallen short but even still, for the comparison to be legit the comparison should be between the top of the line stock Viper to the top of the line stock Ferrari. But when we did that the comparison got little attention, instead going back to the more convenient V8 car comparisons. What’s wrong? Did the F50 out classing the Viper ever so slightly bother you guys. You yourselves admitted that the margin was small but that the F50 did win in most aspects excluding braking and fuel economy. And that Ferrari was 95-97. Well my suggestion is that you enjoy that small margin because in late 2002 the F60 will be released and no stock Dodge on the market will be able to keep up with it if half of what is being said about it is true. Fair is fair, you don’t see me comparing the 456GT to a neon do you?
    Nonsense? Bullshit? No. You just don’t like what I have to say because you happen to be Viper fans. Fact is if what I was saying was wrong I would have been disregarded and ignored. I got responses because you were all trying to convince yourselves I was wrong. If you guys were to post your gibberish in a Ferrari forum you’d either get lashed out at by those who care, or ignored by those who ignore immaturity. Guibo you are only as good as this months R&T, C&D or MT. You also know which tests to post and which ones to leave out. They aren’t all in your favour and you know it. My suggestion is that you learn to take those tests with a grain of salt. No I don’t think they are all full of shit but favouritism exists. The sooner you realize that the better off you’ll be. Even with favouritism the F50 did better. Regardless, I read in a website that the F60 was tested doing 370kmh. Is it true? As much as I‘d like to say yes, it‘s not. Don’t believe everything you read. But I have to ask, Guibo what Vipers have you driven? I’m curious.

    BTW Guibo, your analysis of the shipping scenario works both ways. Suppose the buyer of the Viper was in France where that particular Diablo happened to be. Wouldn’t the shipping and duties work against the Viper in that case? See not every car goes to the US you know?

    Evilninja the references to size are with regards to engine size not overall dimensions.

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  6. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>But it seems kind of strange that my posts are considered nonsense and bullshit coming from the same guys that claim Dodge’s superiority over Ferrari by taking the top of the line “best stock Dodge money can buy” and comparing it to the lesser powered and in some cases even out dated of the Ferrari models.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Outdated? The 360 Modena is newer than the GTS.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>What’s wrong? Did the F50 out classing the Viper ever so slightly bother you guys. You yourselves admitted that the margin was small but that the F50 did win in most aspects excluding braking and fuel economy.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    I thought the Ferrari should win in all aspects, NOT excluding braking and fuel economy. It is, after all, the "better" car is it not?
    You also forgot luxury. The Viper (LOL) beats the F50 back and forth in that respect.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>Well my suggestion is that you enjoy that small margin because in late 2002 the F60 will be released and no stock Dodge on the market will be able to keep up with it if half of what is being said about it is true.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Funny, they said the same thing about the F50 when it came out. And that car was only marginally superior to the F40 it replaced.
    But you're right. It will take a near half-million-dollar Ferrari to significantly outpace an $80K Viper. Congratulations. Putting that F1 engineering to good work.


    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>If you guys were to post your gibberish in a Ferrari forum you’d either get lashed out at by those who care, or ignored by those who ignore immaturity.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Name the Ferrari forum, and I'll meet you there. I've already extended an invitation to plenty of anti-Viper fanatics to the Viper club forum. Curiously, no takers...

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>Guibo you are only as good as this months R&T, C&D or MT. You also know which tests to post and which ones to leave out. They aren’t all in your favour and you know it.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Show me a test where the 360 Modena or 550 significantly beat a Viper around a track, or in the standing mile, or through the slalom, on the skidpad, etc.
    And I'm still waiting for those top speed results for EURO 360 Modenas and 550's. You didn't include it in your post. And I'm not surprised.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>But I have to ask, Guibo what Vipers have you driven? I’m curious.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Zero. And how is that relevant to this discussion? Notice how I answer your questions. Now do the same and answer me this: what's the difference between Gen I and Gen II Viper engines. You said it's displacement. That is wrong. There is no change in displacement. But you're too thick-headed to ackowledge your utter ignorance of the subject at hand, which really has no bearing on whether I've driven a Viper or not. The fact remains: the Viper gives up very little to the F50.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>BTW Guibo, your analysis of the shipping scenario works both ways. Suppose the buyer of the Viper was in France where that particular Diablo happened to be. Wouldn’t the shipping and duties work against the Viper in that case? See not every car goes to the US you know?</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Funny, you didn't say anything about France. You specifically stated Canada, where you're at. I pointed out that right in your backyard is a Viper that would give your Diablo a very tough time around a track, if not beat it outright. If you're going to use an example, please, stick to it. Don't bring up other scenarios when your original example doesn't work out in your favor.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>Evilninja the references to size are with regards to engine size not overall dimensions.

    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    That kind of reasoning is as flawed as your thinking that a car with larger displacement will go through the slalom quicker. States of tune, hp, torque etc are far more valuable indicators of comparable performance than mere engine size.
     
  7. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>Guibo
    The GTS has trouble keeping up with the Modena which lacks power compared to the 550 and even more so with the 575. I agree that the 550 isn’t the best accelerating Ferrari but I’d like to see a stock GTS take it on a long stretch of road.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    What do you mean th GTS has trouble keeping up with the Modena? It consistently runs 0-60 in 4.0 seconds (2 tests show 0-60 in 3.9 seconds), 0-100 in 8.8, and the quarter mile in 12.2. I have about 6-7 different tests showing this. Do you have 6-7 tests for the Modena matching these numbers?
    "Long stretch of road"? How long do you want it? You'll need over a mile. The Viper has beaten the 550 Maranello in the standing mile test (and obliterated the 360 Modena like nobody's business).

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>Guibo
    I hope you aren’t saying that the two engines are the same? You would be only playing into exactly what I said.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Once again, let me know what you think the differences are between Gen I and Gen II Viper engines. If you don't answer, I won't ask again because you obviously don't have a clue.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>Guibo
    LOL gutted Viper? I love this…”Dyno tests please” LOL. All of a sudden it is a valid argument. Cute.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Do you even know that there are different spec Vipers for Europe (weakened to 378-400 hp), compared to those of the US? I guess not...

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>Guibo
    Proof Road & Track May 2002 page 132. Enjoy.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    I'm looking at it. And I'm laughing my ass off!! You call this proof? Remember what I said about going to the source. Look up that particular road test (January 2002) and what do you see? The top speed for the Barchetta is only estimated. They never tested it for actual top speed. Don't believe me? Take a look at the pic below. (Enjoy, LOL! Don't feel like too much of an ass!)
    Now, I'm not saying the 550 Barchetta *can't* hit 186 mph. Just that as of yet there's no evidence indicating it has.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>Guibo
    You made claims about road legal tires not me with the Mclarens. And I know that it was tested on road legal tires but the record breakers were on slicks. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Are you saying "the record breakers" as in 0-60 record of 2.9 for the McLaren F1 LM was done on slicks? (Were those even road legal slicks, or were they pure racing slicks?) Or are you referring to the 0-100-0 record where the F1 LM took 3.9 seconds to get to 60?
     
  8. Sto ridendo, il mio italiano faceva schifo? Meno male che ci sei tu per farci vedere la moda giusta di parlare. Pero, se sei d'avero Italiano ti devi soterare e morire dalla vergogna. Spero che ti rendi conto che la stupidita tua in Italia ti costera la pelle. Povero schemo, a non amettere che certe machine son meglio delle machine che sei tifoso tu soltanto perche non sono Americani. Sarai qualche albanese.

    E fami lo santo favore di non scrivere porcherie che ho altri aconti che tu lo sai che anche se fosse vero (che non e nianche) non puoi essere sicuro perche non ci sara mai prova su qualche cosa cusi. Guarda invece a gli altri stronsi qua che c'avrano una decina di acconti. Chiedi la loro prova invece di rompere le palle con me. Quel che devo dire lo dico io. Ma se c'e uno che mi soporta e perche e piu inteligente che pensi tu, non perche lo scritto io.

    PS dove la tua prova che ho altri acconti?<!-- Signature -->
     
  9. In English, please?

    Anyway. Here's the Viper GTS compared to the 550 Maranello, 0-60. Tested by the same driver on the same day. And this was merely a mediocre result for the Viper. And just about the fastest I've ever seen for the 550 Maranello. C&D has the 550 to 60 in an identical 4.2 seconds, but it takes 12.7 to do the quarter mile. R&T's 550 did 0-60 in 4.7 and took 13.1 seconds to get to the quarter. That's even slower than the RT/10 tested by R&T back in '95 with only 415 hp.

    Now, you might thing the 550 would quickly eat up the Viper after the quarter mile, wouldn't you? In the standing mile, the Viper is still faster. And this is in fact the slowest Viper MT has ever tested to the standing mile (best was 30.1 seconds at 173 mph).

    Let me know if you want to see skidpad and slalom numbers. These cars are in the same class, right?
     
  10. No I clearly knew that it was you who acted like when cars crossed borders their modifications had no effect on performance.

    I can tell you that the newest Viper engine has been increased by .3 liters and that the Vipers output has increased since it’s debut but again I’m not a mechanic so I won’t go any further.

    Again I never mentioned the Mclaren so I don’t know why you brought it up.

    And the 550 Barchetta was tested by Ferrari for top speed, possibly the US version was not and that is why it is not posted in RT but most top speeds here are estimated, so what does that make them? Irrelevant. Think again. RT doesn’t always do top speed tests. Keep in mind that test (which I have) was on a privately owned car. Every Ferrari is tested over and over again before it hit’s the road, what do you think they just make up a number? Just because RT didn’t conduct the official test it doesn’t mean it never hit it.

    As for the tests, you’ve already admitted that the cars get gutted while crossing borders so why bother?
    Find an Euro tested 550 and an American tested Viper. Or are Vipers the only ones that suffer horsepower loss while being modified. And even if the 550 was slower (which it isn’t), is that the Vipers only competition? Let me know if you want to see stats on other cars that are in the Viper class that would kill it.

    BTW you posted all that for .1 second difference? LOL You know the top speed is at least a reasonable difference, that is why I mention it.
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  11. In a recent comparo done by Auto Motor und Sport at Italy's Nardo:

    0-100 km/h:
    Ferrari 550 Maranello 4.7 s
    Mercedes SL55 AMG 4.6 s
    Porsche GT2 4.0 s

    0-200 km/h:
    Ferrari 550 Maranello 14.6 s
    Mercedes SL55 AMG 13.7 s
    Porsche GT2 13.1 s

    Top speed:
    Ferrari 550 Maranello 306 km/h*
    Mercedes SL55 AMG 325 km/h (de-limited)
    Porsche GT2 315 km/h


    *306 km/h = 189.72 mph

    About the same as most Viper GTS's ever tested. Slower than the 192.6 mph set by the Viper in '98. Slower, in fact, than the 550 Maranello tested by Motor Trend in '99 (194.5 mph). Who says US-spec Ferrari's are noticeably slower? Goodness, look at that 0-100 km/h time.
     
  12. I'm not Italian, I'm not even white, but I told you that awhile ago when you called me a patriotic redneck or something. If you look back you might find it. As for the multiple account crap, look back at the link I posted showing the conversation. All you do is talk shit about American cars and Never back those statements up. Just like this arguement with Guibo. you like all cars but American. So what's worse, Loving American cars or Hating American cars?<!-- Signature -->
     
  13. Moderator? LOL. Just another pro american car fan so I can’t say I’m surprised he took the side of the opposition. Was that pic of Britney Spears supposed to increase his automotive credibility? Sad thing is that the only thing he can check is where the messages are posted from and then determines that a person has multiple accounts. Ever hear of roommates, family members, etc? That’s not the case here however. I’m not a citizen of Canada so when I visit for months at a time I stay with gsolinas. So I’ve naturally posted off his computer. It isn’t news to anyone here that we know each other. I’m sure you guys will refuse to believe that out of convenience but if that moderator looked closely he’d notice that many posts of mine were posted in Firenze Italy while gsolinas was in Toronto. Who really cares though. Somehow that feeble excuse is being used to undermine the points that guys like myself, gsolinas, notic, and others have been making. I guess when you run out of arguments and your back is against the wall you’ll throw anything out huh? Well good job, at least the idiots are fooled.

    Its too bad though that something so obvious is so hard to admit. I don’t hate Vipers at all but I’ve watched guys like Guibo post test results that showed 1 tenth of a second difference in a 0-60. Do you really think that the common driver will notice .1 in either direction? **** no. Only a professional tester with a stop watch would notice that. If the 550 and GTS lined up light to light the result would be in the hands of the driver. In a highway race the GTS would more then likely run out of steam first even if top speeds weren’t achieved because the 550 has significantly more top end power. As for handling, Guibo you can post all the lateral G and slalom stuff you want to. They are valid tests but they don’t necessarily give you the best indication of how the car will handle in all aspects. The lateral g tells you how well the car will grip the road in a circle, while the slalom tells you how well it could hold the road on a tight and windy track, but neither test tell you how the car will handle going into turns at high speeds. Let me assure you that the Viper will fall short like the Z06 did in the most recent cornering test I saw. I read it at the news stand but then bought something else (it might have been motor trend but I’m not certain). With or without tests I don’t need someone else telling me how the car will do since I have been for a ride in an RT10 and the owner himself said he was unsure about cornering too hard because the back end tends to swing out. Ferraris and Porsches very rarely have that problem, (none that I’ve been in anyway). Any handling test is incomplete without the cornering test so save your posts. So to respond to your real world claim…keep dreaming, in a straight line the Viper would have the slight (1 tenth) edge but after a distance of a mile the Viper would plateau while the Maranello would pass it. But then on a track with any hairpins you can count on the Dodge to have to slow down significantly to stay on track (unless modified). But again, a lot would have to do with the driver.

    But really, few owners will actually top out and race each other anyway. They are both very fast cars but what makes the Ferrari “better” is the fact that the speed and power is high while offering so much more in the field of luxury. And also the fact that output is similar despite a 3.5ltr disadvantage. I mean if a 250lb man lifted 250lb wouldn’t he be stronger than the 300lb man who lifted 250lb? The scenario works in this case too. Technologically speaking the Ferraris are more advanced.

    But I think I’ve had it. There is no cure for stupidity and that theory has been tested in this forum time and time again, I’ve concluded that it is accurate. Guibo probably wants proof, try looking at about 500 of your posts. You are the most one dimensional guy I’ve ever conversed with. At least have the courage of your convictions when trying to prove the Viper is the best car on Earth and put it into words rather than hiding behind other’s claims and beating around the bush. I know you are just itching to throw down one of your page long retorts but you might as well save it. I’m not interested in where this goes. I’ll never check back here to read the replies. I think everyone’s BS has brought my IQ down. I’m sure it would still soar above yours though. By the way in you failed to show how the 550 would match up to the Viper in Europe I guess that is one of the smarter things you’ve done so far in this forum.

    Meradur, che fregatura, devi essere un albanese perche un Italiano stupido come a te non lo mai incontrato. Spero che ti penti. Ha non sappere il gusto non c’e colpa ma a refutere il gusto e uno sbaglio. Un Italiano vero ti ridera in faccia. Pero io smetto di ridere ogi dato che ti piacce a fare le acuse quando state perdendo . Impara ad avere un po di humilita invece di essere cusi arogante.

    Good luck and try to be a little more open minded. Coming in second isn’t the end of the world. You can keep bashing on Ferraris or whatever makes you feel good but remember the F60 is less then a year away and will #$%# your cars in the ass. So concoct all the NARDO tests you want to. Must be nice to be surrounded by morons that will actually believe you.

    PS Guibo, I love that top speed test that pitted the most powerful Dodge on the market to the weakest Ferrari at the time, the weakest Porsche at the time, the weaker Corvette, the weaker BMW, and the weaker, Aston Martin, and lets not forget the Panoz. Another classic example of American mags hyping the Viper. Why didn’t they throw a Diablo in there? I think you know why.

    I did like the triathlon though. It showed Europe’s dominance in performance very accurately despite rather weak times in some tests.

    Oh well, see you guy in my rear-view mirror.
     
  14. Why are you being so polite in English? Your mother should wash your Italian mouth out with soap! can you show me a link to a thread where I have bashed Ferarris? Probably not, seeing how I am openminded, and I respect Ferarris very much especially vintage models. the upcoming F60 will be long-needed upgrade to the F-series. I think somewhere you went tangent and tried to prove a point. If me and my replies have offended you somehow, #$%# it. Don't sweat the small stuff. I haven't read the statement, "Viper destroy everything!!!!", from anyone who actually makes sense in a long time. If I'm trying to prove anything in this thread it is Vipers can hang with the exotics. Everyone is a hypocrite sometimes, and you seem to be on a roll. Like I said before, you need to stop arguing, and if the regulars on these forums piss you off, go to another one. Preferably one of your favorite cars.

    PS, ogni cosa è piccola cosa. Believe it!<!-- Signature -->
     
  15. #266 Guibo, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from jcazz</i>
    <b> Ever hear of roommates, family members, etc? That’s not the case here however. I’m not a citizen of Canada so when I visit for months at a time I stay with gsolinas. So I’ve naturally posted off his computer.
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Oh, so *now* you explain it. Why not just say so when the issue first came up (assuming what you say is true)?

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from jcazz</i>
    <b>I don’t hate Vipers at all...
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    *snicker* Bullfvuckinshit. Oh wait. I suppose your posts here are praising the Viper? LOL!

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from jcazz</i>
    <b>... but I’ve watched guys like Guibo post test results that showed 1 tenth of a second difference in a 0-60. Do you really think that the common driver will notice .1 in either direction? **** no.
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Hey, don't forget those gaps to 100, to the quarter mile, to 150 mph, and to the standing mile. ALL in favor of the Viper. You/gsolinas was the one that said the "GTS has trouble keeping up with the Modena", just think what a 550 would do, yadda, yadda, yadda.
    Funny, you ask if the common driver will notice the .1 second difference in either direction, yet you seem to think the F50 is all that when it beats the Viper RT/10 (in the same class as the "little Ferrari", LOL!) to the quarter mile by that very same margin. Double standard? Yup!

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from jcazz</i>
    <b> Only a professional tester with a stop watch would notice that. If the 550 and GTS lined up light to light the result would be in the hands of the driver.
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    So, if the difference comes down to the "hands of the driver", how is it that one car is significantly faster than the other? Again, you're the one saying the Viper has a hard enough time with the lower-powered 360 (which is also BS; the Viper consistently gets to 60, 100, the quarter mile, and 150 mph faster than the Modena. In the standing mile, the 360 was absolutely crushed, there's no two ways about it).

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from jcazz</i>
    <b>In a highway race the GTS would more then likely run out of steam first even if top speeds weren’t achieved because the 550 has significantly more top end power.
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Yet the 550, in either US or Euro trim, rarely does any better than 189 mph. Right in the ballpark of average Viper GTS top speeds. You will need one freakin' long stretch of road to accomplish any meaningful advantage over the Viper (if at all). And you STILL don't give the Viper the credit its due. Oh well.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from jcazz</i>
    <b>But really, few owners will actually top out and race each other anyway.
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Exactly? So why the fixation/fetish for differences in top speed, as minute as they are (if at all existent)?

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from jcazz</i>
    <b> They are both very fast cars but what makes the Ferrari "better" is the fact that the speed and power is high while offering so much more in the field of luxury. And also the fact that output is similar despite a 3.5ltr disadvantage. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    No, you mean "better for me (you)". Don't pretend that what's better for you is in fact better for everyone else.
    And your statement is only true if the prices of the cars were the same. Or even in the same ballpark. They're not evenly remotely close. If Ferrari can offer that level of power, performance, and luxury as the Viper AT THE SAME PRICE as the Viper, then that is an engineering feat and I'll gladly admit the Ferrari is better (even for me). Until then...no way. You still haven't shown how the F50 offers more luxury than the Viper. The Dodge buries that car, in the sense of luxury. But so what.
    And you still have a shitload to learn about hp/l, don't you?

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from jcazz</i>
    <b> With or without tests I don’t need someone else telling me how the car will do since I have been for a ride in an RT10 and the owner himself said he was unsure about cornering too hard because the back end tends to swing out. Ferraris and Porsches very rarely have that problem, (none that I’ve been in anyway)</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    And you've been in all of them? How about the F355? That car was notorious for giving even the best professional track testers the willies. Look at the test done by Steve Millen below. Or check out the MT issue where the F355 narrowly loses to the Viper on a very twisty road course. Why did it lose? Every time they thought they could trust it to match the Viper, it would give them the brown trousers movement.
    In '99, R&T had Mario Andretti test the F355 Spider in a handling comparo:
    "...the Ferrari's performance around the tight Buttonwillow handling course fell slightly below expectations.
    Andretti: 'The rear of the car feels spongy. Also, in the wet you can't really use the power of the F355 because you get so much understeer and trailing-throttle oversteer. Even in the dry, the car's rear has a tendency to become loose through most corners..."

    LOL, another "I have been for a ride in an RT10" anectodal BS, totally unsupported and proving...absolutely nothing.
    What you should have said is modern Porsches very rarely have that problem. Older Porsches (pre-993) were notorious power-on understeerers and trailing-throttle oversteerers.

    And let's take a look at this interesting juxtapositon of phrases:
    "With or without tests I don’t need someone else telling me how the car will do..."
    AND
    "...since I have been for a ride in an RT10 and the owner himself said he was unsure about cornering too hard because the back end tends to swing out."
    <i>And the owner himself said...</i> In other words, <b>you</b> didn't drive the car yourself. And you're giving merit to what the driver says about how the car handles, despite your earlier (in the very same sentence, in fact) comment that you "don't need someone else telling me how the car will do..."
    ROTFLMFAO!!! You really are totally f*ucked up, aren't you?

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from jcazz</i>
    <b> By the way in you failed to show how the 550 would match up to the Viper in Europe I guess that is one of the smarter things you’ve done so far in this forum...keep dreaming, in a straight line the Viper would have the slight (1 tenth) edge but after a distance of a mile the Viper would plateau while the Maranello would pass it. But then on a track with any hairpins you can count on the Dodge to have to slow down significantly to stay on track (unless modified). But again, a lot would have to do with the driver.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Why would you think that? The Viper handles quite admirably compared to the competition, even the 550. Take a look at the graphs and tables below. You'll see that despite a major horsepower and braking (non-ABS) deficit to the 550, it puts up very respectable times. In some corners, yes, the 550 wins. In others, the Viper wins. Your claim that the Viper would have to slow down in a hairpin is utter nonsense. I mean, take a look at the speeds at Klostertal 2, which is a hairpin. The Viper is going 4 kmh <b>faster</b> than the 550 Maranello. Not slower. And at Hockenheim, the Viper is .2 second ahead of the 550 Maranello, despite that power deficit and lack of ABS control. It clearly dominates in the vast majority of corners there. Think about what a full 450-hp US-spec Viper with ABS would do to the Maranello at either of these tracks, the difference would be quite mind-boggling. To give you an idea, the 385-hp Z06 laps Hockenheim in 1:14.9. And this car has been trounced by the Viper ACR (still without ABS brakes at the time) in two different head to head track tests.
    "Slight (1 tenth) edge"? Try 1.0 seconds at 150 mph. At 150 mph, a car is going 220 feet per second. The Viper is in front by nearly <b>15</b> whole carlengths.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from jcazz</i>
    <b>At least have the courage of your convictions when trying to prove the Viper is the best car on Earth and put it into words rather than hiding behind other’s claims and beating around the bush.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    I've already said it before (numerous times, actually): I don't think the Viper is the best car on Earth. Not for me, anyway. For someone else? Sure, why not? Who am I (or YOU, for that matter) to say that they are wrong? The point remains: I'm taking issue with stupid comments from people who are obviously quite ignorant about the car. And they then conclude that I think the car is the best on the planet? LOL!!!

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from jcazz</i>
    <b>But I think I’ve had it. There is no cure for stupidity and that theory has been tested in this forum time and time again, I’ve concluded that it is accurate. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    What kinds of stupidity goes on here? Let's see...
    "The GTS has trouble keeping up with the Modena". False
    "You must be 12 years old." False.
    The 360 Modena has a 3.4L V8. False.
    Your post count is high. Therefore, you have no life. (Nevermind the fact that there are others, who are on YOUR side, who have even MORE posts per day.)
    The proven top speed of the Barchetta is 186 mph. Look, it says right here in R&T...LMFAO!!!
    The proven top speed of the 360 Modena is 189 mph. (Still waiting for that one.)
    Euro BMW M3's have top speeds that are 30 kmh higher than US M3's. False.
    Euro Ferraris make less power and are noticeably slower than their American counterparts. It has something to do with compliance conversions, I can't quite put my finger on it. Ooooh! I just know it is, you'll have to believe me! What? BMW Z8's, M5's, and M3's suffer no performance loss in America? You don't say. I'd admit that I'm wrong. But my head is too damn big!!
    Gen I Viper engines are larger in displacement than Gen II Viper engines. False (still waiting for your answer, gsolinas).
    The Diablo Coatl is faster than the 800TT. You see, there's this unnamed French magazine at this Lamborghini webiste that says...*hehe!*

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from jcazz</i>
    <b> I know you are just itching to throw down one of your page long retorts but you might as well save it. I’m not interested in where this goes. I’ll never check back here to read the replies.
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Chickensh*t. I'm sorry. I mean, good riddance! Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out...

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from jcazz</i>
    <b> I think everyone’s BS has brought my IQ down.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Is it really possible to have a negative IQ? Well, maybe in your case. Hehe, j/k. (Well, kinda. You get the point.)

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from jcazz</i>
    <b> So concoct all the NARDO tests you want to. Must be nice to be surrounded by morons that will actually believe you.
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Oh, so you think it's BS? That test was posted on these forums months ago. No one contested it. And it was brought up in the Mercedes and BMW owners' forums as well.
    http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php3?s=33884d38aabad2449541ac12797025ec&threadid=29179
    http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?s=ec67d09db5da60cf24bd69da42f45d74&threadid=1206
    If you think it's BS, just go to the SL55 AMG forums here and say so. Be prepared to have your ass handed to you. It should be noted that he SL ran without its limiter intact, and suffered a failure of the supercharger belt. The 550 took a dump in the 0-300 kmh test.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from jcazz</i>
    <b> PS Guibo, I love that top speed test that pitted the most powerful Dodge on the market to the weakest Ferrari at the time, the weakest Porsche at the time, the weaker Corvette, the weaker BMW, and the weaker, Aston Martin, and lets not forget the Panoz. Another classic example of American mags hyping the Viper. Why didn’t they throw a Diablo in there? I think you know why.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Because the test was about (almost) affordable everyday super/sportscars. And Lambo probably wouldn't cough up a car for this comparo just like they did when Popular Mechanics asked for a Diablo for their acceleration shootout. Besides. The test consisted of lap times around a twisty road circuit. Lamborghini rarely offers up cars for this type of test. I think they learned their lesson when the Diablo SV tested by Sport Auto's Horst von Saurma was only 1 second faster around Nurburgring than that castrated Viper, and indeed half a second slower than the Viper around Hockenheim. (Slower than archrival Ferrari's 360 Modena as well, at Hockenheim).
    At the time of that MT test, the M Coupe was probably the fastest, track-oriented in BMW's North American lineup. Do you know of another Panoz at that time? Do you even know what that time was? It was 1998. At the time, the C5 was the fastest 'Vette. The ZR-1 had been out of production for years, and there was no Z06 yet. "The weakest Porsche"? No, that would be the Boxster (which was out in '97).
    Besides. They had already tested the 993 Turbo the year before. The Viper GTS (the slowest one they had tested) was still over 5 mph faster than that car. The 996 Turbo had not yet come out.
    In '98, was there a stronger, faster Aston Martin?
    Congratulations, you were wrong 5 times in your one PS alone. Are you happy now?

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from jcazz</i>
    <b> Oh well, see you guy in my rear-view mirror.
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Wow, cool! So you're getting a Viper?
    Doesn't matter. Let 550WOLVES take you out for a "spin". Maybe this will be the last we will here from both of you.
     
  16. No kidding! And to attack those who disagree with his point of view as "stupid"...sheesh! It amazes me that a single individual is capable of such a lame analogy. Maybe he's getting some help from one of his, uh, "partners".

    But all of this weight lifting gibberish is just nonsense. We all know that ants can lift many more times their body weight than humans. No doubt about it: Ants are better than humans!
     
  17. LOL! They/he finally got the drift!

    Ants are better than humans!!!!!!!! hehehehehehehehehehe!

    That's gonna be a great metaphor for later!<!-- Signature -->
     
  18. not this again<!-- Signature -->
     
  19. #271 gsolinas, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Guibo I have thought you were full of shit for some time now but that quote just solidified it. Is that what you do when you’ve been made to look like an ass? You lied. The whole Nardo test might have sounded somewhat believable if you had said that they had only driven it that fast that day, but to act like that was the 550s top speed was complete bullshit. Then your proof is another morons thread. Wow, I’m convinced LOL. Truthfully, the Corvette guys at least recognized when they were wrong, but the Viper fans would rather stay dumb than learn something new. You might think you know all there is to know about the Vipers but you have a lot of homework to do to match my Ferrari knowledge. You really need proof that the 550 can hit 320kph try reading the following books:
    Illustrated Directory of Classic Cars by Graham Robson
    Encyclopaedia of Dream Cars by Chris Rees and Martin Buckley
    The Fastest Cars from Around the World by Michael Browler
    Ferrari The Ultimate Dream Machine by Paul W. Cockerham
    The following magazines:
    Forza Volume 33
    Road and Track May 2002
    Road and Track Sport & GT Cars
    And the following websites:
    www.ferrari.com
    www.fast-cars.com
    www.fantasycars.com
    www.supersportwagen.com
    http://dons.usfca.edu/~limki00/ferrari550.html
    http://www.barchetta.cc/All.Ferraris/All.Ferraris.html
    Not to mention the site you are on right now.

    Let me guess though…they are all wrong and you Guibo who knows everything is right. You have now earned the rank of the typical yankee trash. If I was in your corner Guibo, I’d be throwing in the towel. This fight was over rounds ago but with that low blow you displayed your incompetence and inferiority in the field that you seem to think you shine in. I know your 2 or 3 supporters on this web page (which I suspect are you) may be fooled but I’m not a miss-educated 14 year old looking up cars I’ll never own in between beating off on the net like them. As for you being 12. No 12 year olds lie better, you’re probably 10.

    And don’t talk about hp/ltr since it isn’t in your favour Mr. “I love cars with 8liter engines that can’t significantly top cars with less than half their size even in American road tests”.

    When the topic of price came up I personally showed you that Diablos are out there that can outperform the Viper despite being smaller and cheaper (and more luxurious).

    And look at the difference in size of the 355 and the Viper. For God sake the fact that it narrowly lost (after a compliance conversion) tells you just how well it ran, managing to keep such a close distance with a massive car that is actually in a higher class.

    Evilninja, you consider lying and putting up other morons threads vast knowledge. You might be worse than he is. At least he tries to make a valid point (I’m overlooking the fact that he fails).

    Just to break a few more hearts here is a list of other cars that would “hand the viper its ass”
    Mclaren F1
    Bugatti EB110 GT
    Bugatti EB110 SS
    Mercedez CLK GTR
    Porsche Carrera GT
    Every Diablo ever made
    Murcielago
    Jaguar XJ220
    And another list of cars that would also show this 800tt their tail lights.
    Ferrari F50 GT
    Bugatti Veyron
    TVR Speed12
    Diablo Gemballa Roadster
    Diablo VTTT
    Colani Ferrari
    And without the use of slicks!

    I know there will be a retort consisting of about 2 pages of nonsense by Guibo 1, 2, and 3 but save your wrist for punching one off to your to your favourite gay porn site because your replies will from now on fall on deaf ears. I will never again acknowledge any further posts from Guibo seeing as he has destroyed his own credibility. Guibo without defeat you can never truly appreciate victory, take this as a learning experience.
    And for Guibo’s boyfriends, (that is of course if they aren’t Guibo himself) find a new Messiah, this one is finished.

    <!-- Signature -->
     
  20. Hey.. i'd just like to point out that the lotus elise american spec (coming in 2004 thank god.. finally) goes through the slalom at 73.5 mph according to the new road and track. That's a 30,000 dollar car. And That 73.5 mph is faster than the modena. You want to talk about handling? You got talk about handling. Ferrari's are over rated and overpriced.<!-- Signature -->
     
  21. #273 Guibo, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    Tehehehe. This is so funny.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>You lied. The whole Nardo test might have sounded somewhat believable if you had said that they had only driven it that fast that day, but to act like that was the 550s top speed was complete bullshit. Then your proof is another morons thread. Wow, I’m convinced LOL....
    You really need proof that the 550 can hit 320kph try reading the following books:
    Illustrated Directory of Classic Cars by Graham Robson
    Encyclopaedia of Dream Cars by Chris Rees and Martin Buckley
    The Fastest Cars from Around the World by Michael Browler
    Ferrari The Ultimate Dream Machine by Paul W. Cockerham
    The following magazines:
    Forza Volume 33
    Road and Track May 2002
    Road and Track Sport & GT Cars
    And the following websites:
    www.ferrari.com
    www.fast-cars.com
    www.fantasycars.com
    www.supersportwagen.com
    http://dons.usfca.edu/~limki00/ferrari550.html
    http://www.barchetta.cc/All.Ferraris/All.Ferraris.html</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    And how is that I lied, exactly? If you have a beef with those numbers, address it to the people who started those threads. Go ahead, disprove it.
    Did all of those authors test the car themselves for top speed? I doubt it. Lovely list of websites you've got there. Did the webmasters test the cars for top speed? And you provide a link to Ferrari's own website? LOL!!! Everyone knows Ferrari's times are optimistic. Sometimes, their cars reach those 0-100km times. Sometimes, they hit those top speeds. Bur rarely do they do both in one test, meaning gearing may be an issue. Don't get me wrong, Ferrari isn't the only company that's guilty of this. Lambo is known for it too.
    And looking at Ferrari's site, it says the top speed of the 360 Modena is "over 295 kmh". So, is that 300 kmh? 320 kmh? 340? LOL, pretty freakin' vague, no?
    And I love that 0-1 mile time for the 550 Maranello:
    http://www.ferrari.com/cgi-bin/fworld.dll/ferrariworld/scripts/gt/car_data.jsp?car_type=GT&CAR_ID=550_MARANELLO
    22.5 seconds?!!! Yeah, BS! If you have a test of a 550 Maranello doing that top speed (AND matching that 0-60 time), post it. I'd like to see.


    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>I know your 2 or 3 supporters on this web page (which I suspect are you) may be fooled but I’m not a miss-educated 14 year old looking up cars I’ll never own in between beating off on the net like them.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Aha. Another claim. Care to back it up? Why don't you post a message to the moderators, asking them to prove I'm these other 2-3 people? Pull up a chair, folks; this should be a hoot!!


    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>As for you being 12. No 12 year olds lie better, you’re probably 10.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Do you have any proof that I'm 10? Let's see it.


    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>“I love cars with 8liter engines that can’t significantly top cars with less than half their size even in American road tests”.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Do you even know <i>why</i> the Viper has 8 liters? It sure as hell isn't so it can compete against Ferraris. Utter stupidity yet again. Amazing.


    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>When the topic of price came up I personally showed you that Diablos are out there that can outperform the Viper despite being smaller and cheaper (and more luxurious).</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    You did no such thing. You brought up a used Diablo against a used Gen I RT/10. DESPITE the fact that you can pick up a GTS (in the very country that you're in, no less, Canada) for the same price as the RT/10 you showed. Why did you do this? Because you know the GTS can match the Diablo on the track.
    And you conveniently ignore the fact that that Diablo was in Europe, and would therefore be subject to customs and importation duties. Then you say you can get Diablos in Arab countries that wouldn't be taxed. Well, boohoo, you STILL have to pay customs and importation duties. You'll still need to pay the freight (companies aren't providing free shipping now, are they?).
    And where are these Diablos for sale in the Arab countries? You haven't posted any.
    Diablo is smaller? WTF are you talking about? It's only about an inch shorter than the Viper, and it's actually 4.6 inches WIDER than the Viper.
    Maybe when you said "smaller" you meant the size of your brain (compared to a peanut).


    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>And look at the difference in size of the 355 and the Viper. For God sake the fact that it narrowly lost (after a compliance conversion) tells you just how well it ran, managing to keep such a close distance with a massive car that is actually in a higher class.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Yes, the Viper may be "massive". But how does being "massive" help in the slalom? How does being longer, wider, and 300 lbs heavier actually help the Viper, exactly? Christ, the Ferrari is even mid-engined, with more centralized mass. It should have left the Viper for dead in the slalom. But it didn't...
    Just for reference, the Euro Viper w/o ABS is 8 seconds faster than the F355 when both were driven by the same driver, Sport Auto's Horst von Saurma. And yes, that was the EURO F355. Whatever that means, LOL.


    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>I know there will be a retort consisting of about 2 pages of nonsense by Guibo 1, 2, and 3 but save your wrist for punching one off to your to your favourite gay porn site because your replies will from now on fall on deaf ears.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    I'm pretty certain you've been deaf all along.
    "Favourite"?
    That's odd. In your previous post you said I'm the typical inbred Yankee. Now you're saying I'm into gay porn sites? If I'm gay, wouldn't it be kinda difficult to get it up for my inbred female family members, and in doing so perpetuate the typically inbred Yankee bloodline?

    It's pretty amusing that I've made no derisive remarks about those of Italian heritage. Yet this schmuck, instead of trying to stick to automotive issues (like explaining the difference between Gen I and Gen II Viper engines; still waiting for that one, vasoline-ass! Oh, I meant gsolinas), would prefer to engage in personal mud-slinging and country-bashing. Smells like victory? No, defeat is more like it.

    And there you go, scurrying away with your tail between your legs. Just like jcazz. (Coincidence?) Too bad you won't be back. It's been quite fun. Like target practice, but with live dummies. Or is that dumbies?
     
  22. It certainly paid off the time of reading this... This has been an amazingly hilarious conversation. And I assume this gsolinas/jcazz guy left the field thinking he was the winner of this verbal warfare? Good for him it wasnŽt a gladiator match, heŽd be missing a head and a couple of limbs, LOL.
     
  23. gsolinas, the only one "losing credibility" here is you. You post such nonsense and crap it's not even funny any more. I'm with Guibo.<!-- Signature -->
     

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