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Discussion in 'Asian Forums' started by Tipo F130A, Sep 2, 2011.
Although not a bad angle that of LFA.
go get bent and laid #%$gots
It is important to point out these facts Paul. Porsh is more refined than lexus duh but lexus is totally infinitely better than gm. no way can u even compare. true technology only exists in Japanese and german brands just chick out these reviews really its the only way to see if you really get this board. this board is for cars and we talk abotu cars here. heres the review for you. This first Lexus to be launched without a stated passenger-to-golf-bag quotient has been 10 years in gestation and overtaken by technology and events.
In June 2005 the engineering team dumped the LFA's aluminium structure for carbon-fibre, since the 2007 appearance of the LF-A concept, the styling has dramatically changed and its whimsical details slashed away, and Nissan's GT-R has set up a fence round the market niche known as "wraparound-Japanese-supercar-in-white", while McLaren's cheaper MP4-12C carbon-fibre rocket-ship rival arrives in 2011.
Yet Toyota's Lexus division was backed into a corner. It had to produce something or it would lose face and the LFA is part limited-run damage-limitation strategy. Sales of this virtually unique car (only the aircon is shared with other Lexus models) will be limited to just 500. These will be sold through a website opening this week, which will collecting deposits for deliveries starting in January 2011 at a price of Â£340,000. Ouch.
"We were driven to build a world-class supercar," said Harukiko Tanahashi, the chief engineer, and though development resources were never stinted, he felt at times "we had negative winds against us".
The first impression of this long-awaited phenomenon is that it isn't dramatic enough. The nose is rounded off to the point of an idiot's grin and there's almost too much going on over the 14ft 9in long and 6ft 2.5in wide bodywork.
But if you don't like the view from here, there's always another one from over there. What do you mean the bonnet looks left open? Shuffle to one side and check out these crazy triple-buttressed front wings. And what about those triangular vents everywhere?
Under the skin the LFA is a pretty simple machine. Shove a 4.8-litre, dry-sumped V10 in the nose as far back and as low as you dare. Attack a torque tube and hang a six-speed transaxle and rear wheels off the other end. Then tell the engineers that everything else has to go as low down and centrally as possible; even the water and oil pumps are mounted at the bottom rear edge of the block.
There's plenty of unobtainium in there, too; titanium con rods and engine valves, Yamaha forged pistons, carbon-fibre cabin tub and body, aluminium-alloy subframes and suspension components and carbon ceramic brakes. Not that any of that helped much to cut a porky kerb weight of 1.5 tons.
Perhaps the cabin is partly at fault in that respect, although it is an unalloyed, if unintentional, triumph. The incredibly high scuttle gives the impression of driving through a letter box, but also of strength and security. The reverse-slope facia with its egg-crate vents and east/west rotary headlamp switch feels pleasingly retro and is beautifully finished.
The instrument binnacle is a digital display with a central analogue rev counter and digital speedometer that shifts from side to side to reveal ancillary displays for temperatures and the like underneath.
Asked if he had deliberately aped American Sixties style, Tanahashi says he didn't go for a retro chic and that "we always tried not to get too excited in the cabin and show off. We sought a functional but restrained style".
It works, someone's put a lot of love into the LFA and the cabin is delightful. Except for the steering wheel, that is, which combines red leather on a carbon-fibre squared-off rim with all the clammy tactile appeal of a cold sausage. Economy-sized leather bucket seats accommodate most sizes of adult, but there's scant storage space around the passengers and the tiny boot, accessed via a lifting rear screen, has room for one overnight bag â and no golf clubs.
Press the starter and the 72-degree, twin-cam, short-stroke V10 bursts into a turbine-like life. Fixed position gearlever paddles are an easy fingertip reach and first engages with a clunk. The LFA feels heavy and unwilling to pull away at first and out on the road it feels edgy and unsettled. The throttle is oversensitive and it is easy to wobble your foot and end up squirting sideways. The ride, although comfortable, is firm and you need to brace your body with your left foot to get a smooth throttle action.
This nervous feeling disappears once you start to drive harder, whereupon the depth of its competency is revealed. Indeed this is a very serious machine, but one that also wants to play and does not punish too severely for doing so. So with the safety systems off, the LFA does go sideways, it will spin the rear tyres out of corners and it will allow a reasonably competent driver to recover such indiscretions and well, yes it's also fun; not something you could say of many other cars bearing the Lexus badge.
That extraordinary engine is at the heart of the experience. Revving from idle to the red line at 9,000rpm in just 0.6 seconds, it has no modern tricks of turbocharger, radical cam profile or inlet and exhaust flaps to steepen its power delivery. This engine's so linear you could put up a shelf with it. And the hammering, industrial soundtrack is that of a couple of bandsaws having sex under the bonnet. Keep your foot in and the engine revs and road speed climb together like railway tracks; it sounds lunatic fast at 5,000rpm and just rude at 9,000.
"The sound is what I am most proud of. It is not the roar of a beast nor the whisper of an angel, but the roar of an angel," says Tanahashi, quoting Alfred Lord Tennyson's Milton: "as the deep-domed empyrean rings to the roar of an angel onset."
The steering is well weighted and gives a pretty accurate picture of what's going on under the 20-inch Bridgestones. With everything stacked low and central, the LFA turns in fast and hard with little tendency to understeer straight on. Not so good is the gearbox, which is no better than the best of the robotised manual 'boxes that are now being slowly phased out in the LFA's rivals in favour of twin-clutch transmissions.
At speed it's not a problem, with four shift programmes of Normal, Wet, Sport and lethargic Automatic. Those without an ounce of mechanical sympathy can adjust the shift times down to 0.2sec. Manoeuvring around a car park, however, the car feels like its dragging an anchor and one fears for the longevity of the single-plate clutch.
At the level of pub conversation, the big question is, of course, whether the Nissan GT-R would spank the LFA. To 60mph they'd clash wheels, but after that the LFA would leave the GT-R for dead. On a circuit the Nissan might scrabble to keep up with the LFA but its four-wheel drive would count against it, at least in the dry. But Lexus will counter that the LFA is not competing in that arena â indeed, at more than a third of a million, it can't.
There's something touchingly naÃ¯ve about the way Lexus has approached the business of making a supercar. Chief engineer Tanahashi comes over all Swiss Toni about the car. "My taste in women is like my taste in cars," he said. "Lexus is normally an elegant, sophisticated and calm woman, but when she needs to, she can be strong, passionate and even aggressive."
Wow. Designed by unreconstructed chauvinists, scary, weird, wildly expensive and without any discernable practicality or purpose, the LFA has transcended the Rubicon of super. It's sufficiently rare, expensive and downright bonkers to qualify as a bona fide supercar; if you are still doubting, then consider the fact that Lexus will lose money on each one.
Looks like job done then, Lexus.
So going by this review paul you can understand how great the lexus is. i hope you get it. rlq got it pretty well and just to show you that gm cars are garbage baron is so wrong.
also its important to discuss these things because its a supercar forum duh if u dont like cars ur free to leav
Plenty of "TRUE" technology is found in American cars and especially in the Corvette.
Are you actually stating that reason that Porsche wins in racing is "passion mostly duh"? I would put it more towards things that make a car faster, but clearly I just know what I am talking about.
If you read my previous post, you will read why I'm comparing the sales of the Corvette and Porsche in the U.S market.
The numbers you cited may be all model years sold in one year. but the numbers i posted are regarding models of current years sold.
"There is no inconsistency with my statements about the LFA"
Here is a previous post about the Turbo/Zr1 competitor:
"Turbo seats are handy, but I rarely see them ever being used, even by small kids. I don't think that's the reason. Clearly, if you can afford a Turbo, you can afford a ZR1 *and* a pretty nice sedan."
Not everyone wants to buy 2 cars instead of expensive car. If that were the case, many highly expensive exotics would not be selling at all. here's an example: why buy an LFA or Aventador when I can buy a 458 and a nice sedan instead?
"Maybe a person doesn't like the look of the Italians. Or the sound, compared to the LFA"
I'm yet to admit about the insignificance of performance? Im yet to hear from you to admit that from post one which was A TROLLL POST that I'm comparing performance because its the only thing these two have in common. I dont really care about sales because I'm comparing performance, not luxury, price, or looks.
Why I'm comparing GT2 and ZR1 on lap times???? Because i'm talking about performance, dont you get it??? From the very beginning I clearly said I'm comparing performance and yet you decide to add other topics that does not deal with what i'm talking about.
"You pointed out the significant difference in lap times. I'm discussing the signficance of that difference, and thus sales, see?"
there is nothing significant over the Lap times, everyone knows that, however what i'm doing is comparing their performance that is all. Thats why I'm sticking to the topic: PERFORMANCE. There are many publications that compare many sports cars of different price ranges at the track, yet they dont say "oh this car sells more than this one"
because at the end of the day thats not what the point of this comparison is about.
"Here are some sources indicating the LFA had been put on hold:"
I never disagreed with you on that However its still a long development.
"Unless you work for Toyota and have access to their financials, you don't know what the budget is. (I doubt it is as much as the nearly 60 years of Corvette development.) "
I'm pretty sure you dont either. It dont take a rocket scientist to know that it was a very large substantial budget because everything was done inhouse and built from scratch. Theres a reason why that despite the fact that the lexus costs over 350k that they are still losing money on them. Also the fact that the project was started and placed on hold many times makes it clear that it was a very expensive pproject. 60 years of corvette development is more than what was spent on the LFA but GM didnt spend all that money on just one generation as the LFA.
ooh a car thread!
sweet action figures
Viper answer to Lexus
who'll be the next? <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/wink.gif"></A>
"The numbers you cited may be all model years sold in one year. but the numbers i posted are regarding models of current years sold."
And what difference does that make? Like I said, the numbers for the Corvette look good when we look at all model years combined in one selling year (as in '09, '10, and '11 sold in 2010).
So your troll post about comparing the times between the ZR1 and the LFA was to do what exactly? Wow, 7:14 vs 7:19. What a thrilling and meaningful comparison!
The fact that the LFA project had to stop and start tells us they weren't given the free reign and unlimited budget that you implied they were. Clearly some constraints are in place when the project is threatened with cancellation.
Who said GM spent more money in developing the current Z06/ZR1? You implied Lexus spent more to make the LFA what it is today, thus downplaying the decades of development that has gone on behind the Corvette to make it the car that it is today. Do you find it unbelievable that after 6 decades of Corvette development, GM did not spend much more time and money in developing different models (C1-C6), and different drivetrains?
"And what difference does that make? Like I said, the numbers for the Corvette look good when we look at all model years combined in one selling year (as in '09, '10, and '11 sold in 2010)."
What difference does that make? nothing absolutely nothing, just like talking about sales when i'm comparing performance.
"So your troll post about comparing the times between the ZR1 and the LFA was to do what exactly? Wow, 7:14 vs 7:19. What a thrilling and meaningful comparison!"
Was to do exactly??? Well it got your attention and got you to post, so it worked perfectly. "What a thrilling and meaninful comparison" I KNOW OMG CAN YOU FEEL THE POWAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Who said GM spent more money in developing the current Z06/ZR1? You implied Lexus spent more to make the LFA what it is today, thus downplaying the decades of development that has gone on behind the Corvette to make it the car that it is today. Do you find it unbelievable that after 6 decades of Corvette development, GM did not spend much more time and money in developing different models (C1-C6), and different drivetrains"
What i'm comparing is the budget used on the current model year (C6 and LFA). Another reason why the LFA may have been on hold a few times may have been that it was getting too expensive that the money needed to continue funding the project wasnt there. However we dont work for Toyota so we can only assume.
guys i havent been following the discussion
i just need to know who won
LFA or corvette?
The LFA by far because the corvette cant even touh it. there is no way that the vette3 can evern compare. it doesnt have the TRUE techonology that is required to be a real car. the americans cant make anything good.really the corvette is just not refined enough.
the LFA is the better car by far and there is no way that the corvette can even catch it to its exhilarating sound and speed. there is just no way it can be don. check it for yourself.
It's big and it's brash. It promises lots of noise, action and sexy bodywork, while not really worrying about sophistication. No, it's not a Michael Bay film, it's something far better: the 2012 Chevrolet Corvette.
In place of computer-generated robots and epic explosions, the Corvette provides special effects of a more visceral, personal sort. Whether you go for the 430-horsepower base model or the 638-hp ZR1, the Corvette's wide rear tires are in constant danger of being vaporized into fine grains of black rubber dust. Simply put, this is the American sports car. It has power and lots of it.
The current-generation (C6) Corvette debuted in 2005, and although we wouldn't say it's past its prime, it's definitely feeling its age. The cabin lacks the sophistication, quality and craftsmanship of other sporting cars in its price range, while its many electronics controls still use the previous generation of GM switchgear.
Nevertheless, straight-line thrills are timeless, and Team Corvette has done plenty over the years to keep its American classic fresh. For 2012, the seats have thankfully been given more bolstering, the steering wheel has been updated and special ultra-high-performance tires are now offered on the Z06 and ZR1. There's also the Chevrolet Centennial Special Edition, which honors Chevrolet's 100 years on the road with a special black-on-black color scheme.
Regardless of what has been changed or added, the 2012 Chevy Corvette provides the same sort of thrills it has since nearly the very beginning: American power, American style and American value. Indeed, the Vette still gives you more bang for your buck in terms of power than anything else on the road. However, its lack of sophistication means cars like the BMW M3, Nissan GT-R and Porsche's many sports cars will continue to hold great appeal. Let's also not forget the new wave of American muscle cars that includes the Dodge Challenger SRT8 and Ford Shelby GT500. At the end of the day, though, America loves a big, brash blockbuster, and that's exactly what the Corvette is.
Body Styles, Trim Levels, and Options
The 2012 Chevrolet Corvette is available in hatchback coupe and convertible roadster body styles. The base Corvette and Grand Sport (GS) are available in both body styles, and each is broken into 1LT, 2LT, 3LT and 4LT sub-trims. The higher-performance Z06 and ZR1 are coupe only, and are broken down into their own sub-trims.
The base Corvette 1LT comes standard with silver-painted alloy wheels (18-inch front, 19-inch rear), a limited-slip differential, automatic xenon headlights, foglamps, a removable targa-style roof panel, heated and (driver-side) auto-dimming mirrors, keyless ignition/entry, dual-zone automatic climate control, a six-way power driver seat (manual recline), a tilt-only steering wheel, leather upholstery, an auto-dimming rearview mirror, OnStar and a seven-speaker sound system with satellite radio, a CD player and an auxiliary audio jack. Convertible models feature a manual-folding soft top.
The 2LT gains a head-up display, Bluetooth, a touchscreen navigation system, an iPod/USB audio interface and a nine-speaker Bose sound system. The 3LT adds a power telescoping steering wheel (manual tilt), driver memory functions and heated six-way power sport seats (manual recline) with power-adjustable bolsters and lumbar. The Convertible 3LT also gets a power-folding soft top. The 4LT gets extended leather interior trim, faux-suede seat inserts and extra armrest padding.
The Grand Sport is also available in the above trims, but adds to each stiffer springs and stabilizer bars, different dampers, larger and cross-drilled brakes, special wheels and Grand Sport styling elements. When equipped with the standard manual transmission, it also features a dry-sump oil system and a differential cooler.
Options on the base Vette and GS include an adaptive suspension, a transparent removable roof panel, dual-mode exhaust (adds 6 extra horsepower) and a convertible wind deflector. The Chevrolet Centennial Special Edition available on the 3LT or 4LT trims of both the base Vette and GS adds unique black paint, black and red wheels, and the adaptive suspension.
The Z06 is available in 1LZ, 2LZ and 3LZ sub-trims. Each one gets a bigger V8 engine, essentially the same suspension and brake setup as the Grand Sport, axle and transmission coolers, unique wheels, carbon-fiber front fenders and floor panels, and a head-up display. In terms of comfort and convenience equipment, the Z06's sub-trims are pretty much identical to their "LT" counterparts except that the 3LZ gets the 4LT's extra leather interior bits. The Carbon Fiber package adds most of the ZR1's carbon-fiber body pieces for reduced weight along with a ZR1-style spoiler. The Z06 Ultimate Performance package adds carbon-ceramic brakes, lightweight black wheels (19 inches front and 20 inches rear), Michelin Pilot Sport Cup run-flat tires, an adaptive suspension, Performance Traction Management and a larger spoiler.
The ZR1 gets a supercharged V8, unique wheels (19-inch front, 20-inch rear), carbon-ceramic disc brakes, adaptive suspension, Performance Traction Management, additional carbon-fiber body panels (roof, front fascia, hood) and a clear panel in the hood that shows off the supercharger. The 1ZR trim is similar to the 1LZ in equipment, while the 2ZR is similar to the 3LZ. The ZR1 High Performance package gets those items from the Z06 Performance package not already included on the ZR1 as standard.
Like many exotic sports cars and high-end luxury vehicles, the Corvette can be personalized in a number of different ways, including contrasting stitching, different headlight surround colors, brake caliper colors, and personalized exterior/interior color combinations. One interesting option is Corvette Museum Delivery, which allows you to pick up your car at Corvette's historic museum and factory facility in Bowling Green, Kentucky.
Powertrains and Performance
Both the base Vette and Grand Sport feature a 6.2-liter V8 that cranks out 430 hp and 424 pound-feet of torque. All Corvettes come standard with a six-speed manual transmission and launch control. A six-speed automatic is available on all but the high-performance models. In Edmunds performance testing, a base Coupe went from zero to 60 mph in 4.5 seconds. With the optional dual-mode exhaust that adds another 6 hp and 4 lb-ft, a Grand Sport shaved 0.1 second off that time and sounded even cooler doing it. Despite this strong performance, the Corvette actually gets pretty good fuel economy at 16 mpg city/26 mpg highway and 19 mpg combined. Opting for the automatic shaves 1 mpg off each.
The Z06 is powered by a 7.0-liter V8 that produces 505 hp and 470 lb-ft of torque. We found that it hits 60 mph in 3.9 seconds. Fuel economy is again pretty good at 15/24/18. The ZR1 gets a supercharged version of the 6.2-liter V8 that cranks out 638 hp and 604 lb-ft. This is a massive amount of power, so much so that no amount of rubber can appropriately cope. As such, its 0-60 time is only 0.1 second less than the Z06 even if it actually feels much quicker.
All in all the LFA is the better car no way you can dispute it.
Except performance should have something to do with sales for why else would GM/Nissan repeatedly list lap times for their cars, if not to try to sell more cars?
As far as budget, you don't know what the budget for the LFA is (nor do you know the budget involved with making the Corvette what it is today). You don't know what portion of that budget is for startup costs; we can safely assume it's zero for the Corvette. You don't know what portion of that budget is for making the bespoke engine and interior components down to the screws holding the leather to the carbon; we can safely assume it's zero for the Corvette.
It doesnt matter because right here right now we are comparing performance of these two cars if you want to talk about sales then that's a different discussion. However we are comparing performance not sales or why they do this or that etc.
What I'm referring to higher budgeting is that there was a bigger budget for the lfa than the current c6 model because of the c6 model had more money invested then it would be more expensive because it's designed to make profit for the company
Seeing as how you brought up the standard LFA into this (Motor Trend article), I don't see how you can claim sales is off-limits for discussion. I'm making it a part of this discussion, just as you made the non-Nur car a part of the discussion. And if you want to talk about cost and years of development, you can't ignore sales, which brings me to the next point...
That's not a conclusion you could reach. C6 model costs 1/7th-1/3rd as much, but it's made in much greater volume. About 48 times as much assuming the 250/yr for the LFA. My point has been the *concentration* for performance of that LFA budget.
Viper/ win. Stop bposintg
It's an open forum. I can post whatever I want, within the rules.
Viper didn't beat the Apollo (7:11). And lap times are everything.
pshh and the VUper Fx-r beat that too with a 7:02/ nun!
First it was a troll post.
Second, it's a lap time comparison in a lap time related thread on related car.
Third, standard lfa is still relevant to the nur-edition because it's based on the same vehicle.
The c6 is sold in larger volume due to lower price, higher volume. However it was designed to be at low price which limited the budget of the car because if the materials used on such car was very expensive it would be more expensive to manufacture and making the car more expensive. The lfa is more than likely to have a larger budget due to it was made by exotic materials that are expensive to produce especially since Toyota invested heavily these products and even switched the material of the chassis which was even more expensive to than to stick to what they had.
My concentration is related to performance and performance only, just as how it was from the first post I did.
the standard lfa isnt relevant to the non nurburgring version because thats not what this thread is about
you bought it into this thread in an attempt to make the shitvette look better
this is some stupid
crapvette got owned
go back to your drive thru
It was a troll post that you then tried to back up with sales figures concentrated only in the US (where the Corvette has a natural advantage).
You still cannot conclude the resources (time and $) that made the C6 what is is today is smaller than the budget for the LFA. Common sense tells us that a car built pretty much continuously for nearly 60 years would have considerable costs in just safety and emissions certifications alone. You cannot make any accurate prediction of their budget based on prices, or even production volume either. The minimum revenue brought from C6 production is many multiple times greater than that for the LFA.
How many effort behind this lap time?