Re: The Viper kicks all foreign pieces of shts asses!!!!

Discussion in '2000 Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT' started by Guibo, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. #51 Guibo, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>Concerning the R500: I've seen a rotary powered kit version toast a 1300 bhp turbo 911 at Texas World Speedway's road course, which is open with sweeping curves. The porsche was the closest to beating the Super 7 replica but it still lost. And it had 1300 bhp on a wide open track. A viper would fall under the foot of the R500 easily. As it would fall to the TVR.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    When did this race take place? LOL, another "I've seen..." sob story.
    Did you happen to go to Texas World Speedway when the One Lap of America visited that track? Then you would have seen the Viper (with only very minor mods, pushing it into the 610 hp range) beat the competition:
    http://www.onelapofamerica.com/History/2002/results/EVENT12.HTM
    http://www.onelapofamerica.com/History/2002/results/EVENT13.HTM

    Do you happen to see any Caterhams or Super 7's on that list? Do you think a Caterham, Super 7, or TVR would last 18 events like that Viper and still win overall?
     
  2. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>A guy I know in the town I'm visiting at this time use to fund his own rail dragster with the money from his pharmacy. It was in the '70s and he went to nationals every year, never placed to high but still it was his car and he built it. Even he said no amount of torque and traction could make a 450 bhp viper weighing 3500-3600 lbs run under 12.3. And he is a dodge fan. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    And he is also a f*uckin' idiot, and from the sounds of it, you're not too far behind. If you want to see how ludicrous your theory is, I invite you to post such a theory among Dodge Viper owners in their forum. Want to give it a shot?
    BTW, here's a little something for you below. Nothing personal.
     
  3. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BugattiEB110SS</i>
    <b>The Dauer 962LM would shit on this car in everyway and it's stock, not tuned up like this hunk of fiberglass!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    so wut do u concider stock?.......i think the price reads for itself its not stock, theres not a piece on this dauer that is a stock mold from a machine, and how many of these exsist again, wait, did i hear concept?, wait, is that not stock? oh yeh
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from BugattiEB110SS</i>
    <b>Be realistic, TVR Speed 12 800bhp and 2250lbs, 800TT 800bho and 3200lbs. Numbers speak for themselves. You american one sided, close minded idiots need to learn that the hennessy is only good on slicks period.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    how do u figure numbers speak for themselves, ill even compare amercan cars against each other, a viper with 650hp and a vette with 650 hp, the viper wins weighing more, supras with 800hp weigh half the 800tt will loose too, its cuz u foreign ppl build compact, tons of piston engines thinkin quantity makes it better and faster turning RPM engines is better, but no, not quite, for wut u think is all mighty and great gives u shit for torque, on the other hand the 800tt makes 902lb ft torque, hella power to launch this car and keep it goin more than than any other car at 800hp, and before sumone brings up that god damn 427tt, this car isnt on this site in other words doesnt count, u know y?....hmm, lemme think, how many cars on here dont have their original motor in them, i dont think the 427tt is in the class of the 800tt cuz of replacement of the whole engine, the hennessey site shows an auto, at night, wet track, 650R, pull a 10.47 in the 1/4, i dont see a vette doin this or an supra doin this, now remmeber it didnt have slicks on it either, and if yur gonna compare any top times form the 800tt u cna stop there, even tho it sounds childish the 800tt did do its top times in the rain and no it cant be tested against as ppl have asked before on nice hot pavement against the 427tt is becuz its been sold, and i guess the private owner doesnt wanna speak up and let motor trend or sumone run his/her car for top times again in a fair match
     
  4. You're calling me a newbie? Your experience is all in the wrong places. I have car experience, you have magazine experience. Really, when was the last time you drove a car to its limits. And if you haven't had wrecks doing it you aren't pushing, each wreck you learn a fault and improve. When was the last time you drove a car to its limits pulled off the track and wrote in your tuning notes that you think it needs less rear toe-in, or more front camber, or needs whatever?

    Just so you know, MT says the new, lighter, more powerful, faster viper *COULD BE* in the 3.9 second range.

    "More power, an easier to modulate clutch, a crisper shifting transmission, and wider tires give the impression this one could be a 3.9 second car."

    You can find that in the last paragraph on page 64 of the June 2002 Vol. 50, NO. 6 issue. Another magazine, I think C&D, said the new viper runs 12.0 in the 1/4 mile. An entirely exceptable number for the improvements to the car.

    Once again, instead of going around on the web and finding a few instances where the viper comes out on top you should go to the next SCCA meet in your town. You'll see lots of Super 7s and you'll see them torching things with 3-4 times the hp and 3-4 times the rubber on the road. They still fall. It only costs about $10 to get in and you can stay all day. Other cars you may witness getting beat by Super 7 include a red, white, blue, and star spangled C5 with a custom rear suspension and about 600 bhp; also you'll see a supercharged NSX getting torched (also about 600 bhp). What you aren't getting is that these track Super 7s can have as much as 400 bhp and no fullsize car can touch them. You obviously never get out. Go watch some ametuer races. Oh yeah, I did actually see a viper at this one event, the guy used it to pull his Super 7's trailor. I was dumbfounded...I asked the guy, asked him, to his face, "Why don't you race your viper?" "Its expensive, hard to work on, and slower than my 7." My initial response was something like "huh?". I was about 14 years old at that time. If I realized the 7's superiorty over the viper at such a young age and you haven't...

    1. Maybe I just learn really fast.
    2. Maybe you learn really slow.
    3. Maybe I have more experience than you because you don't get out much.

    Six years later the truth is clear. Not that I don't like vipers, I do, I don't like the people with no experience who over-rate them. You're a victim of propaganda.

    If I wanted to spend the time on it I could find specs for the Cerbera proving my position but...Seriously, someone who spends so much time digging through online archives could not have time to go to races, walk the pits, talk to real drivers and techs. You could also get some track time yourself. Its basically like you're talking about your favorite food, which you've never tasted. You're taking another persons word for the taste. You're just a "magazine racer".

     
  5. #55 EmmArTooGuy, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from dodgedude</i>
    <b>supras with 800hp weigh half the 800tt will loose too
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Stock for stock a Supra weighs as much as a viper. I think you should take a look at this street legal Supra.

    http://www.suprastore.com/98914titmoto.html

    Pay special attention to the parts of the page that say:
    "no nitrous", "six speed" (autos are faster for drag racing than manuals), "stock differential", "Stock Shortblock (used not new)"

    There are more Supras like this too.

    You can buy a 1,200 bhp engine (rebuilt 2JZ-GTE) for the Supra for $33,000. How much does the Venom 800TT conversion cost?
     
  6. #56 Guibo, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>I did say that in the first place and lets think about it. I said I'm traveling, right? I was at my aunt's house last weekend and like normal, the kid was hangin' all around me so he could see what I'm doing. I showed him this site, showed him what people do on here. Showed him my posts. He want'ed to make a screen name so I showed him how. Now imagine yourself at 13, your 20 y.o. cousin, whom you look up to, comes to visit and lets you play with his computer. Does it surprise you then the similarities? </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Ah, but you DIDN'T say that in the first place. You carried on a couple more posts without acknowledging the relationship. Indeed, I didn't even bring it up until later, when I asked if you had any connection to that user.
    This all sounds like it happened in a matter of only a couple of days. Yet your cousin said he's read all of my posts in the other forums. That's gotta be at least 4000 posts, discounting the posts where all I'm doing is uploading photos. Seems verrrry unlikely.
    The similarities are too mind-boggling:
    1) You mention the Caterham R500.
    2) He mentions the Caterham R500.
    3) You mention the Cerbera 4.5.
    4) He mentions the Cerbera 4.5.
    5) You say (incorrectly) that light weight is the most important virtue of a race car.
    6) Then, he talks about how light weight cars trash Corvettes and Vipers.
    7) He says I should get out and go watch SCCA amateur races.
    8) Then you (in the very next post, without acknowledging your relationship) say that I need to get out and watch SCCA racing.

    Now, either your 13-year old cousin has an uncanny grasp of British-built sports cars (highly unlikely, unless he hails from Blackpool or London), or he's just a mindless parrot, or he's actually you. For now, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and suppose it's option #2. But to really resolve the issue, we're going to have to have both of you guys post simultaneously, and then have someone check out your IP's. You up to that? You're both in the Central time zone, no?

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>As for his viper throwing the belts statement, he wasn't there and didn't see it. I'm sure he heard me talk about it and repeated it, as he does with many things, as most kids do.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    So you're saying he's a parrot. That's good. But in his post, he specifically states: "I knew a guy that had a viper..."
    Notice that he didn't say: "My cousin knew a guy that had a viper..."
    A 13 year old who happens to know someone who had a Viper? How convenient, for this particular discussion! You two seem to be pretty good at bringing up anectdotal evidence and accepting it for truth. Regurgitation, again.
    Speaking of slung belts, do you want to get into a discussion about TVR engine reliability? This will be a hoot!!!

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>Think about you accusations. Though we disagree, surely you don't think I'm that stupid.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    I don't know, but you're not giving me much hope.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>I included the Speed Six for reference. There is also a 4.5 there. What do you think the other link was. I'll post them again.

    Cerbera 4.5:
    http://users.compaqnet.be/carcollection/TVR/Specs/TVRCerbera45.html

    For comparison purposes I'm including the Speed Six:
    http://users.compaqnet.be/carcollection/TVR/Specs/TVRCerberaSpeedSix.html

    The Cerbera 4.5 (top) has power figures that are equal to the Speed Six's (bottom), despite having different engines.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    I'm sorry, how exactly is any of this relevant? Are you making the case that TVR have in fact built a Cerbera 4.5 with only 360 horses? Do those websites you provided actually test any of the cars. Is there the chance possibility that they (and consequently YOU) are wrong? Surely you're not going to stand behind that assertion now, are you?

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>http://www.tvr.co.uk/graphics/cerbera/pages/contents_cerb.html

    "The Cerbera 4.2 remains in production for those customers who prefer a V8 and the Cerbera 4.5 gives a range topping 420 bhp and 380 ft.lbs. of torque. Getting to 60 mph in 3.9 seconds, 100 in 8.1 and 150 in 17.9, the Cerbera 4.5 is one of the fastest road cars in existence."</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Hmmm...the TVR website has conflicting 0-100 numbers for its own car. And numbers that have not been confirmed by the engine dyno. And numbers that have not been confirmed by ANY press car, let alone a production car. Do you see a pattern here? I knew you wouln't.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>Its true that the second link is a dealer but the numbers aren't the factory claims and they came from somewhere.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    "Somewhere". Beautiful. And pretty freakin' vague, no? "Uh, I've heard that the Viper can do 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. Where did I hear this from? Somewhere!"...LOL.
    Now, be a good boy and please find that somewhere for us. This has been going on for over half a year now in these forums. This question was even brought to the attention of pistonheaders themselves (no doubt the most hardcore TVR fanatics you'll find ANYWHERE on the 'Net). After ELEVEN (11!) pages, none of them could find any evidence of the TVR Cerbera 4.5, production or otherwise, matching the numbers claimed by the factory.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>Why is the 0-60 time the same? England is on an island surround by water, the test conditions there won't be as varied as the ones in our country.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    LMFAO!!! Why don't you afford those same excuses to the Viper? After all, our country with its varied test conditions, show extremes of Viper performance. We have the fast ones, done by Car & Driver, Motor Trend, and Popular Mechanics. We have the slow ones, done by R&T. And curiously enough, you stick by the SLOW ones by R&T. Coincidence? Hypocrite.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>The same is true for these times:
    (I'm not poosting the source because you'll believe these numbers anyway)

    0-60: 4.3
    0-100: 8.9
    1/4 mile: 12.4</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Please. Don't be Mr. Mysterious. Post your sources. I've posted mine. If those stats come from where I think they do, your numbers are still off (if it's a preproduction, fettled-for-press Cerbera we're talking about).


    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>This is exactly why I like R&T despite the fact that they don't ring every last drop of performance from their cars. They tell the reader how the car is driven. At the bottom of the Road Test Summary in every issue it says "Acceleration numbers are obtained using drop clutch starts and lift throttle shifts."</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Why do you assume MT and C&D use clutchless shifts for their testing?
    If you're going to stick by R&T's stats, then you'll have to accept that the 550 Maranello can only manage a 0-60 time of 4.7 seconds. *snicker*
    You'll also have to believe that the F355F1 can only manage a 0-60 time of 4.8 and the quarter mile in 13.3 seconds. Despite the fact that MT pulled off 4.6 and 13.0. Can you really shift an F355 F1 w/o the clutch? And get those same numbers?
    R&T's M5 could only do 60 in 5.0 and the quarter in 13.4. Both C&D and MT have done better.
    And you'll also have to accept that the 405-hp Z06 is slower than the 385-hp Z06 to 60 and the quarter mile by .1 second. (Both were tested by R&T.)

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>An acceleration program that use 80+ user programable variables concerning the condition of the car, driver, road surface, and atmosphere. It corrects the HP for these variables too.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Does it take into account aerodynamics? Rolling resistance? Differences in driveline losses? Gearing? What are the gear ratios for the Cerbera 4.5? It's final drive? Differences in each car's shifting mechanism?

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>BTW: Sorry if I offended any Viper fans out there.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Oh, don't worry about it. LMAO.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>BTW: Sorry if I offended any Viper fans out there.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    LOL, I think it's a bit too late for that.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>I'm quick to snap but I'm quick to appologize after I calm down.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    No you're not. You assumed I don't go watch amateur races. You were wrong. You stated my education is in the wrong place. DESPITE not knowing a damn thing about me. You were wrong. You assumed the Viper could do no better than the times it achieved in R&T. And despite the 9 cases I brought before you, you STILL stick to the R&T numbers. (And then go off on some lame-ass tangent about what MT projects for the new '03 Viper. As if that had ANYTHING to do with our discussion at hand.) You assumed the Cerbera would trash the Viper in a stoplight dragrace. Then, when faced with the real-world test results, make up some excuse trying to explain why the Viper could have done better. Throughout all of this, you remained unapologetic.
    But don't bother being apologetic now.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>I feel that my position on this debate is unbias because I'm neither a Chrystler or TVR fan, but rather, Toyota is my favorite. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Bwahahahahaha!!!! Good one. Let me guess, everything you've said here is an unbiased analysis of the Viper's qualities and faults. Riiiiiight.
    Newsflash!: You can have Toyota as your favorite and STILL be biased against the Viper. That much is clearly evident here. And your cousin is such a hardcore Toyota fan, his very first post was in the Toyota Supra forum...No, waitaminute. It wasn't...Face it, you/he are not fans. You're haters. Plain and simple.
     
  7. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>This is why I *believe* the Cerbera 4.5 is faster:

    1) non-factory claims:
    0-60: 3.9
    0-100: 8.3
    0-150: 17.9

    2) These numbers aren't far off considering the 4.5 has 29-30% more HP/LB compared to the viper.

    3) An acceleration program that use 80+ user programable variables concerning the condition of the car, driver, road surface, and atmosphere. It corrects the HP for these variables too. (I did manage to get the 11.97 sec 1/4 mile for the viper using a clutchless, full power shift)

    4) In other 2500-2600 lb cars (my full street MR2), a 20 bhp increase results in a 3-4% drop in acceleration times. A 60 bhp increase should give 9-12% drop in acceleration times. If the 350-360 bhp models run 12.4, they need only a 4-5% drop in acceleration times to best a viper.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Yawn.

    1) Those are very probably BS claims based on factory claims, at least they are from unknown origin. The MOST probable thing is that they are just copied factory claims with a typo, 8.3 should be 8.1. And that typo has then been copied from site to site.

    2) STILL no. Cerbera 4.5 does not have the hp/lb advantage over the US spec Viper. This has been verified by the two separate quarter mile tests for press prepped 4.5s AND several dyno runs to actual production 4.5s.

    3) No comment, except donŽt take your computerŽs numbers as a gospel, especially when you just keep tapping and tapping and tapping INCORRECT hp numbers into it.

    4) That 3-4% is not cumulative straightly to 9-12%, but anyway did those "420 hp" 4.5s tested by the Autocar and Top Gear top the "360 hp" 4.2Žs acceleration times by 9%? No. So what does it mean? DonŽt you STILL get it?
     
  8. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Guibo</i>
    <b>Can you show me the evidence that the Cerbera Speed 12 has even been produced for road use?

    The 800TT has never been tested on full race slicks. LOL, that's some "cheating" going on.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    i've seena speed 12 in teh road in blackpool (where they're made)

    y would they have a price if they weren't production?? (£188,000)

    Get it right b4 you try and defend your POS Viper<!-- Signature -->
     
  9. #59 Guibo, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  10. #60 Guibo, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  11. What car does Pamela Anderson drive? The Answer: Dodge Viper. No joke.

    OK SvSi Viper, and what disease does she have, hepatitis C so she can't be that clever can she?

    The best car in the world, viper, are you insane, 235 mph is not bad with turbos, a mclaren does it without so does a tvr speed 12 and a f50 gt. This car isn't badly priced either but no american cars are expensive. As for america being the best country in the world see if any other country agrees with you then ask all the inicent americans who are killed because of your ridiculous gun laws. An you, the best best person in the world, you've made 419 posts so it appears to me your a pathetic little man with to much time on his hands so he therefore sits on his fat arse all day eating and posting childish comments on the internet dreaming of a dodge viper.

    Best loser in the world more like.
     
  12. #62 Guibo, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from M360</i>
    <b>yeah ok morons, i know why it needs a big engine and i'll jsut tell you breifly so that i shut you guys up... the viper needs big engine becuase then you get the torque that makes the car accelerate quickly at low rpm's!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Bwahahaha!!! That's it? If you'll look at my question again, I'm referring to WHY it has an engine of that size and with that many cylinders. Hint: GM.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from M360</i>
    <b>Why do you think you see so many american cars beign dragsters and hardly any european cars being dragster! think about it, american cars focus more on drag racing then european cars!</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Have you ever heard of the Finnish Hot Rod Association? Here's just one of the cars that compete in that group:
    http://www.lauparacing.com
    They also run a whole host of cars, from GM F-Bodies to Volvos to M3's, even top fuel dragsters like we have here in the States. Dragracing is also fairly popular in the UK. Look up "Santa Pod" on the Internet.

    If American cars can't handle, how do you suppose that the castrated Viper is only 1 second slower than the 360 Modena around Nurburgring? It had an inferior power-to-weight ratio, and no ABS brakes like the Modena. And the 385-hp Z06 is .2 seconds quicker than the 360 Modena at Hockenheim. How do you explain that?
     
  13. MR2guy,

    Sorry but it seems that the link you posted hasnŽt really tested the TVRs and merely reposts the TVRŽs factory claims - the same claims that the few actual road tests have failed to reproduce.

    I was wondering this very same dilemma a while ago, as the power to weight ratio would indicate a smashing qu mile victory for the TVR over the Viper. But yet the TVR has been slower in real life tests, how is that possible? The answer was after all very simple - TVRŽs claimed hp figures are BS. If you read the threads in the Cerbera 4.5 forum, youŽll find from there somewhere a (British) dyno test made to a Cerbera 4.2, supposedly 360 hp peak. The tested Cerbera posted around 250 rwhp DIN peak. I donŽt think that the Viper has the same, eh, "drivetrain" loss percentage. And as the tested Cerbera 4.5, supposedly 420 hp peak, posts about the same qu mile times as the 4.2... Well, as youŽre used to fiddling with the hp/weight calculators and simple physics, I donŽt have to tell you what the REAL hp number for the Cerbera 4.5 most likely is.

    And as I recall, weŽve previously had some kind of a discussion regarding peak horsepower numbers and the actual total available hp difference between high winding small engines and low end powered big engines, with the same peak hp rating, although itŽs not that relevant in this.

    IŽm not saying the 4.2 and 4.5 werenŽt in some rare prepped cases able to actually produce their claimed hp figures (although I find it very peculiar that the factory hasnŽt even managed to provide such an individual for official magazine testing). But so, if you go to buy a real TVR, for what IŽve read, I very much doubt that youŽd get what you think you pay for. And even if you did, that thing for sure wouldnŽt win any endurance races, like the "orphan child of a minivan / tractor, with handling only from big, sticky tires" frequently does, among the non-endurance races as well. <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif">
     
  14. MR2Guy just believes what he wants to believe. What a shame...

    Those times were the factory claims. No read test of the Cerbera 4.5 has came even close to those times. <!-- Signature -->
     
  15. The times form the article say:

    0-60: 3.9
    0-100: 8.3
    0-150: 17.9

    Factory claims are:

    0-60: 3.9
    0-100: 8.1
    0-150: 17.9

    It also clearly said there is a 360 bhp 4.5 and a 420 bhp 4.5. You won't admit there is a less powerful 4.5 that is more commonly tested because it is narrowly beaten by the viper; with the extra 60 bhp the 420 bhp model has, it would hold the viper down and rape it silly without breaking a sweat. You viper fans just believe what you want to believe and disregard evidence, as do I but I got it from you and only do it with YOUR evidence. Whats food for one is food for another.<!-- Signature -->
     
  16. I also recall a certain viper fan complaining about a guy posting best times for the 360 Modena and poor times for the viper. The viper is faster than the Modena but wehat is the difference between the situation described above and what is happening now. You calim the fastest times for the viper and only accept the slow ones for the Cerbera. What a hypocrite.
     
  17. #67 Guibo, Aug 9, 2002
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>The times form the article say:

    0-60: 3.9
    0-100: 8.3
    0-150: 17.9

    Factory claims are:

    0-60: 3.9
    0-100: 8.1
    0-150: 17.9

    It also clearly said there is a 360 bhp 4.5 and a 420 bhp 4.5.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    That's odd. TVR's own website says differently from what you're saying up there:
    http://www.tvr.co.uk/graphics/cerbera/Framesets/Cerb_Frame_engine.html

    Do you seriously think that that website does ANY instrumented testing of the cars it features? Seriously. What are the odds that they'd reach the same exact 0-60 and 0-150 times as the factory?

    There is a 360 hp Cerbera 4.5? This is news to me. Are you reading (and THINKING), or are you just regurgitating?
     
  18. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>I also recall a certain viper fan complaining about a guy posting best times for the 360 Modena and poor times for the viper. The viper is faster than the Modena but wehat is the difference between the situation described above and what is happening now. You calim the fastest times for the viper and only accept the slow ones for the Cerbera. What a hypocrite.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Haha, this is so funny. Let's see your quickest and slowest times for the production Cerbera 4.5. I've already posted 9 tests of the Viper hitting 60 and the quarter mile quicker than R&T's time for the Viper. Care to discuss the SLOWEST times for the 360 Modena?


    BTW, do you have any connection to the forum member The Real Deal, in that other thread?
     
  19. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Guibo</i>
    <b>SvSi:
    Not to be anal, but I'd just like to clarify that no production Cerbera has gotten close to those times. The preproduction one tested by Top Gear was close to the 0-150 time, but not 0-60 (off by some .4 seconds). The preproduction one tested by Autocar was off pretty badly in 0-150 mph, and was as "slow" to 60 as the one tested by Top Gear. It was noted that the Cerbera 4.2 was quicker, and certainly so in the in-gear acceleration tests.
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Wait, I'm confused. What I said up there, or at least meant to say, was that the numbers he posted were TVR's factory claims, and no road test of the Cerbera came close to those times. <!-- Signature -->
     
  20. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>I also recall a certain viper fan complaining about a guy posting best times for the 360 Modena and poor times for the viper. The viper is faster than the Modena but wehat is the difference between the situation described above and what is happening now. You calim the fastest times for the viper and only accept the slow ones for the Cerbera. What a hypocrite.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    What are you talking about? Theres real test numbers, and TVR's claims. Real tests, TVR's claims. Get it? Find the best times for the Cerbera, ones that have actually been tested.

    This <i>is</i> getting funny. MR2Guy, you don't get it do you? Oh well, slow learners take a while, its natural.

    And you call me a hypocrite? What I did in the forum was say that those are the absolute worst times for the Viper, with the majority being made up! This is different, because you keep taking the factory claims, disregarding the real proof. <!-- Signature -->
     
  21. If I was going to go down to the drag strip or race down a highway, I would prefer a Viper GTS.
    If I was to take to city streets, I would prefer a Ruf Porsche.
    If I was to go race at the track, I would choose a Ferrari 575M.
    If I was to race across the USA, I would choose something American like a Corvette, which can handle long distances. If I was to take an older lady to the Opera, I would prefer a Bentley
    If I was to take a younger woman to the movies, I would choose a Masserati.
    If I was to go undercover in San Francisco (my home town), I would drive an HKS modified Supra.
    Since I am just a man, I drive an '87 Mazda 626. It does the job.
     
  22. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Guibo</i>
    <b> <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>I also recall a certain viper fan complaining about a guy posting best times for the 360 Modena and poor times for the viper. The viper is faster than the Modena but wehat is the difference between the situation described above and what is happening now. You calim the fastest times for the viper and only accept the slow ones for the Cerbera. What a hypocrite.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Haha, this is so funny. Let's see your quickest and slowest times for the production Cerbera 4.5. I've already posted 9 tests of the Viper hitting 60 and the quarter mile quicker than R&T's time for the Viper. Care to discuss the SLOWEST times for the 360 Modena?</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    Hmmm... I think MR2guy was refering to my statement to gsolinas in the "Americans are Sometime...part II" thread on page 4 about his so-called proof:
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Meradur</i>
    <b> And about that proof that you posted... I only see one scan of an article, some cross referencing from 2 different mags with faster times for a 360 from one, and slow times for a Viper from the other( If you look what each mag has for both cars the Viper wins in both mags) and a bunch of derrogatory statments about the Viper and forum users. Oh yeah, still waiting on the explanation to why people should believe everything we post is false, and everything you post is true... ;)
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    MR2Guy, This was solved easily with a test that had both the 360 Modena and the Viper at the same venue. Not to mention that the 360 in that test was the Fastest one ever recorded. The only real way we could come to a conclusion is the same way. Someone(like a magazine, because I KNOW I can't cough up the dough) would have to test BOTH the cars on the SAME day, on the SAME track.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Guibo</i>
    <b>BTW, do you have any connection to the forum member The Real Deal, in that other thread?</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    LOL!! I was gonna say that too!! It IS a strange coincidence that the name is in the signature...

    Oh well, Im' gonna quote MR2Guy on this one...
    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from EmmArTooGuy</i>
    <b>The problem with discrepencies in times has been solved. And everyone lived happily ever after. The End.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    <!-- Signature -->
     
  23. Mr2guy, there are no Cerbera 4.5s claimed 360 hp. In your link thereŽs a typo under the Cerbera chapter - 4.2 is just marked 4.5. And do you still REALLY think that 1) the editor would have actually TESTED not one, not two, but ALL TVRs and 2) after going through all that, simply left the "based on personal tests" completely UNMENTIONED??? Truth is, the 4.5 HAS REALLY BEEN TESTED at least twice in press prepped trim and no, it did not post times that "rape the Viper silly". Cerbera 4.5 was slower than the Viper. The claimed hpŽs are not the godŽs own truth. And what do you care after all? There are of course the dumbass kids who say "The Viper kicks all foreign pieces of shts asses!!!!" and the like. But the flip side of the very same coin are the Viper hater dumbass kids who say that "Viper handles like a tractor" and "gets raped by this and that".

    And speaking of which, this IS funny. Guibo and Meradur, I think youŽre right with the connection to the "RealDeal" in the other thread. Hmm... Mr2guy, I remember you telling in the Camaro forum that YOU "saw somebody overrevving a brand new Viper and ripping off the belts", like the "TheRealDeal" claims in the other thread. Furthermore, you have the motto "The Real Deal" in your signature AND youŽre also a Toyota (Supra) fanatic. So either YOU have "TheRealDeal" account or you just happen to have a fan who makes you look bad. For your first mottoŽs sake ("Honesty and courage are the greatest of virtues") I hope itŽs the latter.
     
  24. And Guibo, thanks for the pistonheads links. IŽd still say that the mentioned average 330 din hp at flywheel for the 4.2 still has a rather optimistic correction factor, or they just donŽt trust the TVRŽs drivetrain over there <IMG SRC="http://www.supercars.net/servlets/cMsg/html/emoticons/smile.gif">. Anyway, around 300 hp is still good from a 4.2 liter (or 4.5 liter) and more than enough for such a lightweight car. That car sure would be a fun to drive, although I think the maintenance costs would probably turn out to be something horrendous... But the starting price is after all really reasonable.
     
  25. Hahaha. Yet another person who knows they are beat so they make a dual account to insult the person he got insulted and proven wrong by. Well, there goes your credability, MR2Guy. If you even had any in the first place...<!-- Signature -->
     

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