Dodge Viper Coupe Info.

Discussion in 'American Cars' started by Futher Mucker, Dec 15, 2004.

  1. Man, what happened to the 600 horsepower coupe I've been hearing about? I mean this is tight and all, but why are they keeping the performance the same? Oh well, atleast it should be better on the track.
     
  2. The performance will not be the same. The coupe will weigh less.
     
  3. Oh yeah, that's true. Maybe I'm just expecting too much. Whatever, this is sweet!
     
  4. something that I find a bit rediculous. You guys go apeshit when a supercar has an accident or is totalled, and yet everyone calls for more and more power in these things. Im really sure 500 BHP is plenty enough to keep up with the Vettes, or a lot of other things for that matter. Not that I dont like high HP cars, I LOVE them as you all know, but when you give that kind of power to ordinary (but rich) people, youre going to have a few who cant handle the car and crumple it. So I think a 600 BHP production viper is a bit absurd. Let Lingenfelter and Hennessey handle that sort of power increase for their small clientele. The more powerful supercars get, the more and worse the accidents will probably be. Theres a certain limit Im sure that most people can drive a sportscar, and I think companies are rapidly approaching those limits. NOt everyone is a racecar driver, and most racecar drivers probably opt for something with much better handling than a Viper. Let the exotic and luxury companies handle 600+ BHP, the Viper is fine with 500.

    Of course, this is just my opinion, so feel free to throw dust in my face if it suits you.
     
  5. I agree with you for the most part. But as for the "let Hennessey or Lingerfelter handle it" ordeal, I'm not into that. Once they get their hands on it, it's no longer a factory car, so you really don't have any bragging rights.

    As long as this coupe stays 1 step ahead of the new ZO6 as far as the performance goes, I'm fine with it only having 500 bhp.
     
  6. your a tool...the Viper is the anti-Vette and I for one(and all Viper owners will agree) that it stays that way forever. The Viper dethroned the Vette as the American sports car the second it rolled off the assembly line back in 91....it has outperformed the Vette since...The lack of refinement is one of the major reasons it is better than the Vette...They don't want grannies driving the Viper...they dont want idiots who cant drive stick driving the Viper....the car intimidated you because you didnt have the skill to drive it fast. That is not a knock against you just the facts....you want to see unrefined...sit down in a Ferrari F40 or F50....roll up windows, bare carbon fiber, no carpet, gaps in the body panels as wide as the grand canyon...but i dont see anyone complaining abut those cars.
     
  7. There has been times in which the Corvette was able to outperform the Viper. The 1990-1995 ZR1's outperformed the Viper in most areas, The Viper was ahead in handling. The Gen II Vipers could sondly beat the C4 and C5 Corvette's, and the Gen III is ahead of the C6 for obvious reasons. But when the new Z06 comes out I think that once agian the vette will be considered king over the Viper.

    I thought that the SRT-10 Coupe would have a bump in horsepower and torque. Is this information the last word or will we find out otherwise later down the road. If it doesnt get a bump in power then the Gen III will most likely take a back seat to the Z06 Corvette.

    And whats the deal with Diamler Benz, seems like they are kinda anti Viper.
     
  8. "The Viper was ahead in handling"

    Oh how the times have changed, lol!



    "But when the new Z06 comes out I think that once agian the vette will be considered king over the Viper."


    I'm not sure about that. I have faith that the SRT-10 coupe will still be the better straight line performer. Can't say for certain if it will be a better track car, but it will undoubtedly be a much more capable track car than the current SRT-10.


    "I thought that the SRT-10 Coupe would have a bump in horsepower and torque. Is this information the last word or will we find out otherwise later down the road. If it doesnt get a bump in power then the Gen III will most likely take a back seat to the Z06 Corvette."



    Like someone said, the new coupe doesn't need more power because it will be much lighter and more aerodynamic. It will definately be a close one though, much closer than I'm comfortable with, but it should be interesting.
     
  9. First things first the F-40 and F-50 are street legal race cars, NOT sports cars. Hence their lack of refinement. They wre never meant to be driven everyday like the Vette and Viper.

    Just because the Viper can go faster on a straght line does not make it a better car than the Vette. There is not one knowledgable person here who will tell you that the Viper is a better TRACK car than the Vette. Or that it is a better car to live with than the Vette. The new Viper is better than the old Viper but the Old Viper is the one I was refering to. The new Viper doesnt even class with the Vette anymore!

    As for the comment about my ability, I am more than able to drive the Viper I graded the F2000 racing series school at Mosport about three years ago, It was full race training and a series of nine "Hot-lap+sprint races". I think that would qualify me to drive a Viper.

    As for the Anti-Vette comment, Daimler-Chrysler created the car to go against the Vette That was its purpose, to de-throne the Vette. Yes we know they wanted a raw brutish car, I am not arguing that. But if the car was refined enough for what D-C wanted why did the New Viper come out with all these cushy new things. Also is the new Viper not available with optional traction control?

    A car can be rifined and still be a raw brutish car, look at the Murcielago, Very refined car and still a Raw super-car. Look at the Vanquish Extremely refined car and still a Brute.

    The bottom line is, Yes the Viper is faster, yes its a brute, but the Vette is a better all-around car, that will easily keep up with the Viper around a race track, it is a better car to have as a daily driver and it costs over 30K less. I am slightly biased but I would think that would make the Vette the prefered car.



    Gransport! when did the Viper out-handle the Vette? I remeber the Viper having a better skid-pad rating, but I dont remember it ever having a higher slalom speed! It could just be me not remembering
    though. The New Viper out handles the C5 but not the old Viper.
     
  10. i dont think you can get traction control...

    and if they refined it, it would naturally cost more like the murcielago and vanquish, which are cars the viper doesnt really compete with
     
  11. No traction control option, okay. I just thought I read you could get the new one with it, but I must be mistaken about that.

    If they refined it, it shouldnt necessarily cost more. The Vette is much more refined of a sports car and it doesnt cost as much as the Viper does. I know the Viper doesnt compete with those two cars, I was just giving examples of cars that are refined but still have the bruteness the Viper has!
     
  12. The Viper has not replaced the Corvette as America's sports car, and to say so is ridiculous. There is a lot more to being America's sports car than just performance numbers. The Corvette's following is 100x the size of the Viper's following, not to mention that the Corvette has been America's sports car for 50+ years now. The Viper can't match the rich history that the Corvette has and it never will or can. The Viper is an awesome machine, but the Corvette is, was, and will be America's sports car far into the future.
    Edit: I forgot to mention the Corvette's racing history as well, and that is something the Viper also can't compare to.
     
  13. The vipers racing history ain't to shabby. Remember when the Vette first started beating the Viper was when Dodge pulled factory support. I think Oreca was only beat once when Dodge was backing. Even without factory support the Viper is still winning races and finishing respectably.

    I wonder why the vette has a much larger fan base, hmm... been around for 50 years oh and they make a bazillion of them a year, that is one reason the vette does not appeal to me on some days I see more vettes than mustangs and F-bodies combined.
     
  14. Yes but that was also only the second year the Vette had factory backing. Not many cars do great their first year racing. The Vette did very good, the Viper was the only car they really had trouble with. Your right though since its inception the Viper has had a fantastic racing history. No arguement there. But event he new competition coupe cant compete with the Vettes especially the C5-Rs. But we will see what happens when the new GTS-R and C6R comes out. It is something I can barely wait to see.

    We do have to remember though, when it comes to comparing cars, the racing versions and the street versions are two completely different monsters. And the bottom line is thought the Viper is great it just cant quite beat the Vette as an over-all better car. The Viper has its niche and it fills that niche perfectly, but as an overall car it just doesnt have that "je ne sais quoi" the Vette has.
     
  15. #40 BowtieIZBetter, Dec 18, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    The thing is the Corvette's racing history dates back to 1956. Here is brief history on Corvette racing: http://www.corvetteracing.com/race_history/race_history_set.htm
    Exactly the Vette does have a larger fan base and it has been around for 52 years now, and they made 34,064 Corvettes in 2004, do you know why, because they can sell all of them, the demand is there. These are just some of the reasons the Corvette is America's sports car.
     
  16. Where to start in on Mr. Vette...first off...the Viper is not avaliable with traction control period...The Viper is believed by most to be the better overall performace car in the right hands. The car is difficult to push to the limits, and because of this any joe schmoe magazine editor will more than likely lap faster in a C5 Z06 than a Viper...but in the hands of a truly capable driver the Viper's power advantage, loads of grip, and stiffer overall chassis design can really shine....as far as handling numbers go..The Viper out skidpads, slalom, and figure 8s the Vette according to MT...

    ....as far as the fan base goes...is it to far of a stretch to say that the Vette has a larger fanbase because of its much lower price range?? I think so. Based on price alone the Vette is going to appeal to a much larger percent of the general population than the Viper....Also have you ever looked at the Vette production numbers...I would veture to say the the majority of those Vettes produced are purchased by aging citizens, and come with the automatic tranny...performance oreiented choice if ive ever seen one lol...

    ....You said the new Viper doesnt even class with the new Vette anymore...i dont understand what your saying so I cant reply to that....

    ....now about the racing...your walking a thin line by saying the Corvette is the more sucessful racer. Remember the Factory Vipers dominated International GT racing for quite some time stomping the factory backed C5-R's for a couple years before Chrysler felt as though they had nothing else to prove and pulled factory support. The Vettes actually only beat the Oreca Vipers in one race, and that was only because the Viper went off the track on the last turn of the race. Also most forget that the Viper won the Overall at the 24hrs of Daytona the year BEFORE (beating the Vettes in the process) the C5-Rs did. Also you CANNOT compare the competetion coupe to the C5-R because the CC was not built to compete with the C5-R....the CC was built as a Grand Am racer and has already proven to be sucessful, first with Paul Mumford (RIP)whipping up on the factory Audi's in Speed GT before his tragic death, and then with Tommy Archer winning the Speed GT Championship this year in his CC...beating out a couple factory teams(and some privateer Grand Am Vettes as well. The Vipers are also dominating in the French GT series as well, as well as dominating the 24hrs of the nurnburgring(sp?) the past bunch of years....

    ....You should check out the Viper forums and read the posts of the guys who used to drive Vettes (Many of the Z06 owners) Who now drive Vipers...They all say the Viper is in an entirely different league than the Vette. Sure the Vette is fast, but it just isnt on par with the Viper. The Current SRT-10 out performans the C6 in just about every way concievable. It is going to be interesting to see who is on top when the Z06, and the Viper Coupe become available...I have a hard time believing the new Coupe will come with the same powertrain as the current SRT-10...the Concept of the coupe that was shown at VOI did in fact share the power train with the SRT-10 but I believe that was more for convienience than anything else. There will be some sever backlash against DC from the Viper community if the car does not have at least 550hp...Dodge has already built a 625hp version of the SRT-10 motor that was shown in the SRT-10 Carbon Concept, and I have read rumors of that motor finding a home in the new coupe. If that turns out to be the case then GM is in trouble....we will see...the biggest thing to remember when looking at the current cars is this...the new Viper is only avalable in a convertable so we have yet to see the full performance potential of the platform since verts are genrally much heavier, and softer than coupes...
     
  17. #42 DIGGS, Dec 19, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    The Vette has won GTS at Le-Mans what 3 times consecutively now! podiumed 4 years consecutively. Has an overall win at Daytona aswell and three consecutive GTS wins at Sebring. It has won 30 out of 50 GTS class races since its introduction. Pretty damn good concidering I am not including any other of the Successful Vette race cars. I am sure that if the C5R competed in half the different racing leagues the Viper does there would be alot less wins for the Vipers. You have to remember that ALMS and LMS are the only types of racing that get C5Rs, every other form of racing gets modified Z06s where as dodge had to put out a factory built race car to be able to beat even the privateer Vettes. With exeption to the Oreca GTS-R for the first two years the C5R was in development.

    You mention Speed GT, Grand Am, and French GT all of which have Viper CCs racing right?
    The CC is a factory prepared race car, None of those leagues(as far as I know) have Factory prepared Vettes or C5Rs do they? They are all Privateer Z06s and they do still win numerous races!

    As for the Motor Trend test, it really doesnt mean anyhting because they could throw two other drivers in the cars and the results would be different. Here is an example http://www.corvettemarqueclub.com/news.asp?NewsID=78
    Except this is from motor week TV. The bottom line is that the Vette is the prefered everyday sports car.

    As for your comment on old Vette owner who now own Vipers. I could say the same thing about numerous Ex-Viper owners who now drive Vettes.

    The Reasone they sell more Vettes is that there is a higher demand. To say the Vette sells more than a Viper simply because of its price is ridiculous, simply because if you can afford a Vette, chances are you have enough money to afford a Viper. If people wanted to buy the Viper over the Vette the Viper WOULD outsell the Vette as they would begin to produce more Vipers and Vette production would slow.

    Anyways we dont need to argue we both love our respected cars greatly and are both biased which is fine. The Viper is a Great machine, but in MY opinion the Vette is the better car. You think the Viper is the better car than by all means do.


    P.S. the comment I made about the Viper not really being in the same class as the Vette is only because we are comparing a 7 year old sports car to a 1 year old sports/super car. That is why I based most of my arguement towards the GTS not the SRT-10. As the GTS is only one year older than the C5. When the C6 Z06 comes out then we can truely compare the SRT-10 to the Z06. As the Base C6 isnt meant to compete with the SRT-10.
     
  18. One more thing:

    Generally when the Average Joe buys a car they want to buy a car they can use to its full potential, right? They dont want a car where they would be like " Hey, I got this super fast car, how fast you ask? Well I dont know because I am not a proffesional driver, so I cant actually drive the car as fast as its desinged for or I would probably kill myself."

    I dunno bout you but If I spent 100K on a car that I couldnt use to its full potential safely, then saw a car for 30K less that performs just a little less(very little) but that I could actually drive fast safely I think I would be trading my set of keys dont you?
     
  19. I agree that the Vette is more for the average Joe...It always has been and this is one of the reasons when people bring up rumors about a super vette i shudder...the vette is the everyman's sports car with world beating performance...and it needs to stay that way....If Dodge were to raise the price of the Viper to 120k and 700hp to beat up on the Enzos of the world I wouldnt want GM to do the same with the Vette...it should stay in the market segment that it is right now where it belongs....

    ....just to clear the racing stuff up....the only factory backed GTS-R's were the Oreca cars...all the ones in other racing leagues are privateers....
     
  20. Yes they are privateer owned but they are factory prepared. The CC is built at the factory as the CC. Whereas all the Vettes in Racing other than the 4 C5Rs are built by the privateer or contracted out to a private company to build for the race driver/Team. This also gives the Viper an advantage as there is one hell of a lot less tweaking to be done by the team itself.

    But yeah I agree
     
  21. Actually the Corvette has not always been for the average Joe. The first Corvettes were given to actors and other celebrities to promote it. In the 50s and 60s they were considered to be quite expensive and were not attainable by your average working man.

    "...the vette is the everyman's sports car with world beating performance..." Exactly now it is the "everyman's" sports car which is why it is also America's sports car.
     
  22. Most people in the US cant afford a $45000 car.
     
  23. I agree. GTS = sexy. this one looks too high tho, need to be a little bit lower. looks too squished too, but that might just be a bad pic. right step tho.
     
  24. #49 MarthaStewart, Dec 19, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
    i thought the vette only won lemans 2 years in a row
     
  25. Nope 01,02,03 and in 04 they placed 2nd and 3rd behind a Ferrari.
     

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