Re: Americans are sometimes...(Part II)

Discussion in '2000 Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT' started by MAB062183, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>What The #$%# already! How many posts do you have to see where the Ferraris do outperform Vipers to finally admit it. Do you actually read the tests. There have been plenty of opportunities for you guys to see where the Ferrari outdoes the Viper in performance. Your refusal to admit this is starting to get old.

    The F40 can be found for $200,000 USD so don’t talk to me about prices.

    Guibo if you need someone else to tell you that a truck has a totally different purpose than a sports car get the #$%# off the site because this isn’t the first time you’ve brought up pick up trucks. And obviously that big V10 didn’t help much since it (the Viper) managed to stop in 156 feet.

    And engine size is my only argument? Keep crying about price hypocrite. Fact is I posted some tests on both cars that did prove what I was saying.
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    The F40 can be found for 200,000 dollars? Is that just another number you pulled outta your ass? What, does the F40 have 300,000 miles on it? Hell, I could find a Viper for 30,000.

    156 feet? Oh, I see, you disregard the fact the Viper has had ABS for over a year now...Why is that? Because you don't want the Viper to outperform the Ferrari even more.

    Are you saying that price is not a factor? If price isn't a factor, how the hell could engine size be? Price is probably the biggest factor to buying a car. And the fact its 70,000 and outperforms Ferraris and many other cars, proves its done its job. <!-- Signature -->
     
  2. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>Guibo if you need someone else to tell you that a truck has a totally different purpose than a sports car get the #$%# off the site because this isn’t the first time you’ve brought up pick up trucks.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    AHA! So you admit there's yet another factor that affects performance: intended purpose. Well, why the f*uck didn't you say so? Oh, yeah. I remember. Because you seem to think engine size is what determines which car <i>should</i> perform better.
    Lots of things affect performance. Intended purpose, price, power, weight, layout, etc. These things can also be used to classify cars together for the purposes of comparison. NOT JUST ENGINE SIZE, which you obiously have a silly fetish for.

    Hey, gsolinas. What's the slalom speed for the "big Ferrari", the 550 Maranello?
    And how do you explain that when tested on the same day at the same time, the Viper without ABS takes only 4 feet longer to stop from 60 than the 360 Modena? Hmmmm?
    Think about it. When in doubt, limit the variables. Look at the comparisons for these cars are done on the same day with the same driver.

    Judging by the lap times around Thunderhill, the 360 Modena and 550 Maranello have already been vanquished by the Viper.
     
  3. Because the Ferrari does outperform the Viper?
     
  4. People are just stupid to blurt out that the Viper outdoes the Ferrari. Check the stats people... it doesnt!
     
  5. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from AlphaRomeo</i>
    <b>Because the Ferrari does outperform the Viper?</blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from TheRushingPlay</i>
    <b>People are just stupid to blurt out that the Viper outdoes the Ferrari. Check the stats people... it doesnt!</blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from TheFunnyMan</i>
    <b>Agreed</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    LOL!! That's a good point, listen to these guys, Agreed!!<sar><!-- Signature -->
     
  6. I guess 550WOLVES is scared to show his real identidy, so he has to bring in his clones. He hasn't been here for over 2 weeks. Scared of me I guess...

    Anyway, as stated many times above, the Viper does outperform the Ferrari. No questions about it.<!-- Signature -->
     
  7. I'm american and I wouldn't touch a dodge if you paid me, so don't say Americans in general.
     
  8. Price may be the biggest factor in buying a car but not in comparing their performance. If it were the Bentleys should be capable of killing the Viper but it doesn’t.

    4 feet longer is still longer than the Modena braking time. Should the Viper be congratulated for coming within 4 feet of the Ferrari.

    The tests Guibo posted were usually picked apart. For example he’d only show the Slalom or skidpad, or 0-60. Any car we named can outperform the other here on any given day when you pick the test apart but looking at the whole test may reveal something very different. In R&T June issue a test is done on about 8 cars. Now if you look only at the slalom times the Lotus Elise is the best car, if you look at corner entry speed the Porsche 911 Turbo is the best, but when you look at the entire test the top honours and best overall performance went to…you guessed it, the Ferrari F360 Modena F1.

    But if you want to talk slaloms look at my post at the bottom. It is a very old result for the F50 and some Vipers that happen to be near it. We do all agree that the 550 is hardly intended to be a racer (despite being very good at it anyway) so I decided to show the Big Ferrari that was intended to race. Maybe they weren’t done on the same day by the same drivers for the cry babies out there but at least it is the same magazine. While you are at it check out the stopping times since someone said earlier that the Viper stopped better than the F50, LOL and don’t forget the Fuel Mileage comparison at the end since it was said too that the F50 was a gas guzzler and the Viper was not. Dead even with the GTS R and a 8 tenths behind the GTS…what economy cars LOL!.

    In case it is hard to read the slalom of the F50 was 65.7 the GTS R was 65.3 and the GTS was 63.6 and the GTS R stopped 11 feet after the F50 while the GTS continued for a further 8 feet. Not to mention the better 0-60, 0-100, quarter mile, and 100-0. Let me guess those particular Vipers were tested on Mount Everest.
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  9. "BTW, a Ferrari enthusiast will be the first to tell you that the Ferraris are not straight line dragsters so the fact that their quarter mile times are sometimes more than the Viper’s again is not much of an achievement. If you read the article in full on the Modena in June 2002 you will see that the Modena rarely wins a single category but its overall performance is what gives it such good segmented times over and over again. It’s wrong to pick apart a car’s performance, look at the whole thing."

    Are you trying to tell us that the Viper is a straight line dragster?
    If it's a dragster then it's a damn manuverable one! I didn't see the Viper being compared in that June R&T article you showed. You compared a Ferrari to a Mazda. I believe it's already been shown that the $500,000 Ferrari F50 can outperform the $75,000 Viper. It should. It has a V12. We could call it, say... a truck engine? That seems to be what you think is in the Viper. You whine about how the Viper has a bigger engine and that it should be faster than the 360, then you go and compare the Viper to something with yet a bigger engine than the Vipers. Where'd all that Ferrari technology go? I guess that to you when a Ferrari carries a big engine it's ok, but when there's a big engine in a Dodge, it's the end of the world and must be stopped before it begines going faster than the Ferrari's.
















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  10. As a matter of fact, those Viper stats did come from the same test venue as the Viper ACR, over 1000' above sea level. If you'll notice, the 385-hp Z06 tested in the same issue and at the same venue is also quite slow, compared to tests done by MT and C&D. The F50, on the other hand, was tested only a couple hundred feet above sea level.

    gsolinas, if you'll look at those fuel economy stats, you'll notice there's a number next to them. What does that number mean?
    And the F50 is considerably lighter than the Viper. Its engine is considerably smaller. Wouldn't you expect that its fuel economy should be better? After all, there's some serious Italian engineering going on with that car. Yet, its fuel economy is pretty horrendous. Ditto the 360 Modena Spider.
    If you expect that an engine that is 2X's as large as another engine should put out 2X's the power, wouldn't you also expect that larger engine to consume 2X's the amount of fuel? After all, according to your (totally flawed) "logic", everthing relating to automotive engineering should increase in a completely linear fashion (hp/l). Yet the Viper fuel economy figures don't support that theory at all. When tested against the 993 Turbo S and the NSX by C&D over the very same roads, all three cars got identical fuel economy figures. And yes, the Viper creamed the other two cars on the road course as well.

    Regarding braking, yes, one should be surprised that the Viper (with no ABS control, more weight on its nose, and more weight overall) is as close to the 360 Modena as it is. The addition of ABS will easily close that gap.
     
  11. A) I never said the Viper was a dragster.

    B) I never brought up the Mazda.

    C) The Viper has an 8.8 liter engine, the F50 has a 4.7 liter engine so do your homework.

    D) You guys said it was better on fuel not me…I just proved it wasn’t.

    E) It closed the gap but didn’t top the 360.
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  12. What were the fuel economy figures again? Your pic is way too small. What does the postscripted number mean?

    And since when does the Viper have an 8.8L engine? Are you on crack again?

    LOL, referring to that R&T test again. The 360 Modena won only one segment, it lost to the Elise in the other. Besides, that test was based more on subjective opinions than outright performance numbers anyway.
    And look at how much of the track was used. LOL. Only 2 out of a possible 7 segments for which times could be measured. And if you look at the Z06's speeds entering the timed segments, you would see that it's carrying some serious speed. Faster than the Elise and the 360 Modena and the 996TT (which has already been beaten in two prior head to head track tests against the Z06; one of them being the 385-hp variant, even). I have no doubt that if OVERALL lap times were measured, the 360 woudn't have fared as well as it did.

     
  13. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>C) The Viper has an 8.8 liter engine, the F50 has a 4.7 liter engine so do your homework.

    D) You guys said it was better on fuel not me…I just proved it wasn’t.

    E) It closed the gap but didn’t top the 360.
    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Right. The old, non-ABS Viper (which I don't think you can even buy brand new without ABS anymore even if you wanted to).

    How about looking at the C&D stats I posted that showed the F50's fuel economy was worse? Have you ever seen any test where the F50 gets 16 mpg?

    8.8 liter engine, LOL. Looks like someone else needs to do some homework.

     
  14. Quite right. The Mazda MP3 outmanuvered the 360 Modena in the slalom when tested at the same time. LOL!
     
  15. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>The tests Guibo posted were usually picked apart. For example he’d only show the Slalom or skidpad, or 0-60. Any car we named can outperform the other here on any given day when you pick the test apart but looking at the whole test may reveal something very different.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Is that my cue that you want to see ALL of the results between the Viper and 360 Modena, and between the Viper and the 550 Maranello? Just say the word.
     
  16. The fuel economy figures were 13.0 for the F50 and GTS-R, and 13.8 for the GTS.

    Stop trying to pick apart tests. We all saw R&T award the first prize to the Modena so stop trying to take away from it.

    As for the 8.8 liter. Read the following post where the GTS was compared to the Z06. I’ll admit it didn’t sound right but it is right there.
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  17. I know that was a little small so I'll try and enlarge it but it might loose clarity. Regardless I'm sure that few will argue that the Viper engine is bigger. None the less. Here is another look.<!-- Signature -->
     
  18. sledgehammer vettes better than both of them. though between the ferrari the viper, it's a close call if your blind,deaf, and stupid. the viper is much better.
     
  19. How is the Sledgehammer one off a better car? It’s not even a real car. It’s a decoration in a museum, stick to road going vehicles.

    The fuel is hardly important to me but even if it was I’m sure that those estimates are based on something more than opinion. The F50 is estimated to consume as much as the Viper. Go ahead and make excuses.

    The Modena was tested alongside other cars and still won. I’ve seen it win plenty of other tests as well. Keep making excuses.

    As for the 8.8 liter engine, you bet it set off bells in my head, but that is because I know that those mags are often inaccurate. Are you finally admitting the same thing? Because if you are it puts nearly every point you have ever attempted to make in question.

    My post regarding importing clearly indicated why there aren’t any importation forms for me to post. Those guidelines were put there to show the loopholes used to import cars privately. But you not believing me means nothing. I know what I do, and how my bills get paid. Just because you work at taco bell you don’t have to get all bitter about how another earns a living.

    “I requested FORMS, not IMPORTATION GUIDELINES. And I wanted them over one and a half MONTHS ago.”……who the #$%# are you again? Some little punk demanding forms? You act like you are a judge and this is court. LOL Those who matter know who I am and what I do so stick that finger back up your ass. .

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  20. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>The Modena was tested alongside other cars and still won. I’ve seen it win plenty of other tests as well.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    The Lotus "won", in objective performance nitwit.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>As for the 8.8 liter engine, you bet it set off bells in my head, but that is because I know that those mags are often inaccurate. Are you finally admitting the same thing? Because if you are it puts nearly every point you have ever attempted to make in question.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    LOL, it does the same for your points as well. Except I have 6-7 proven tests of the Viper hitting 60 in 3.9-4.1, 0-100 in 8.8, quarter miles routinely in 12.2 and numerous top speeds over 185 mph. What have you got for the 360? Not much at all. You have a test case of 1 (the MT where the Modena did 0-60 in 3.9).

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>My post regarding importing clearly indicated why there aren’t any importation forms for me to post. Those guidelines were put there to show the loopholes used to import cars privately.</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Right. But anyone with a computer or mailbox can access that information.

    <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>……who the #$%# are you again? Some little punk demanding forms? You act like you are a judge and this is court. LOL Those who matter know who I am and what I do so stick that finger back up your ass. .

    </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    So, you admit you can't even make a convincing argument, whether this is to be treated like court or not. Who am I again? That's hardly relevant to this discussion. Hell, I wasn't the first one to bring it up, that's for sure. It's funny how you claim you are someone (that you aren't), yet assume someone else is 10 years old. Remember what happened the last time you made that stupid assumption?

    "Those who matter". LOL. Are you referring to notic and jcazz? Where are they now?

    F*uckin' troll.
     
  21. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from gsolinas</i>
    <b>Just because you work at taco bell you don’t have to get all bitter about how another earns a living. </b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->
    Hey, that's funny. I didn't know Taco Bell has an employee stock purchase plan. Crap, I'm in the wrong business!
    If being bitter means that I, as a Taco Bell employee, can hold my own against an [alleged] exotic car importer (actually making him look like a total jackass, really), then YES, I am bitter. Muahahaha!

    Remember, it was YOU who brought up the theory that you're a vehicle importer. Not me. If you make the claim, you're going to have to back it up. I seriously doubt exotic car vehicle importers are as stupid as yourself.

    You want nachos with that?
     
  22. Well gsolinas

    Its been quite a while since last time we argued, and I haven’t had much time these days lately. However I couldn’t help but look into the Viper Forum and see once again you are here bashing a great American car (what a surprise).

    Either way, I’m not here to insult you, there is absolutely no point in calling names. However after reading you’re posts on here few things you say really does bother me.

    One major thing I remember, when you and I were arguing over the Z06 VS 360 Modena, and you were showing stats on how the Modena was better performer yet I showed you stats where the Z06 was the performer (this was the same when talking about the Sledgehammer and Lambo). However you’ve always attacked people who put up stats that are produced by American car magazines, saying that they are extremely biased.
    Yet here you are fighting with Guibo about how good the Modena is and on one of you’re posts you’re showing websites that are totally devoted to Ferraris including Ferrari’s homepage! How can you go and say an American car magazine would be biased but a Ferrari enthusiast or any European car tester would not be? News flash Americans are not the only ones that are very patriotic, you yourself have showed how patriotic you are towards Europe when it comes to comparing cars.

    Good examples of this can be seen in you’re history posts, where if you’re looking at an American car stats, they must be so rock solid that even if you did them yourself you’d question it, yet if it’s a European car, some guy of the street who tells you how good the stats are is proof enough. (If anyone wants to see an example of gsolinas doing that I can show you)

    The second thing is, you come in here and say that Gas Mileage is hardly important to you when comparing cars, yet comparing the size of the engine is. You’re doing it here with the Viper and you did with me with the Z06. Now you’re stating that the Ferrari is better because it produces more with a smaller engine so it’s more efficient.

    I’m sorry man, but when you take two cars and they are very close in performance yet one car guzzles a lot more gas then the other (I’m not sure about the Viper but I know the Modena guzzles a lot more then the Z06), that would make the other car the more efficient one.
     
  23. Hey Guibo or whatever you're name is. I think you're just mad because the viper is an overpriced piece of trash and nobody can do anything about it. The R500 and Cerbera 4.5 are both faster, the R500 costing less. And as for this 800TT thing...It is cheaper to get 800 BHP out of a Supra and guess what, an 800 bhp Supra would rape the stupid little 800TT's vagina all bloody! Not to mention the Supras pulling over 1000 BHP with everything below the headgasket stock; not an overpriced rebuild like the 800TT. I knew a guy that had a viper and the day after he bought the trash, brand new, it slung the belts! Ripped up the hood and everything. He took it back the next day for a complete refund based on the fact that the final sales time limit had not expired.

    I've read all your trash talking in the other forums...Your words are trash, like vipers. If you had ever in your life been to an ametuer road racing event (like SCCA holds) you'ld know how light weight cars trash vipers and corvettes. But since you are physically incapable of leaving your room, well...I'm sorry for you.
     
  24. The Lotus won in certain areas, the Modena won overall, but this isn’t a Lotus - 360 comparison is it?

    Your 6-7 tests are all chopped up and broken down, my posts showed everything yours did in a single posts. Let explain it for you since you appear to be a little slow. Showing me a post of a slalom, then a post of a fuel consumption, then a post on a 0-60 is the same as showing a single post where all three and more are included. The difference being in the single post all those tests were done at the same time.

    Won’t your dad be upset that you went through his shit like that.

    Vette1, boy I really missed you. To respond to your comment on showing potentially biased posts, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander but even still many of my posts do come from MT and R&T. So it’s not like I don’t mix it up.

    Look at the posts where I have added a jpeg, do they look like info I got on the street?

    Gas mileage is hardly important to someone in an exotic since saving money doesn’t really matter anymore but I never said you get more out of the 360 tank then you would out of the Z06 tank. But having a big engine is regarded to most (obviously not you guys) a sign of technological weakness.

    Guibo, let me guess, therealdeal is also me. You’ve adapted quite well to being wrong anyway so you might as well go ahead and make the accusation instead of beating around the bush (sounds pretty curious), grow some balls. But I love how you challenged him to drive a Caterham on a 500 mile road trip. You act as if the Viper is an exceptional ride or something. Then again I remember you claiming you’ve never driven one. Yet you defend, defend, defend. When you lose your Viper virginity (hopefully you at least manage to lose that one), make sure your model has the A/C jacked or at least take the RT/10 so you can peal the top off since the cabin overheats almost instantly.

    Realdeal, nice to see someone else can see through this guys bullshit.
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