EVO drives the MP4-12C

Discussion in 'European Cars' started by Tipo F130A, Feb 14, 2011.

  1. #176 Tipo F130A, Mar 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  2. And what if it was only supposed to outsell the GT-R 3:1? See, we could play this all day
    - we could and it looks like Ferrari got the right strategy: They are a VERY profitable company and you don't see a Ferrari on every street corner like you do with 911's -. The point is, despite the average 911 transaction price exceeding the GT-R (and being slower), Porsche still outsold Nissan by a sizeable margin. Wanna bet Porsche made massively more profit on each one sold too - NOT a point: MP has no relevans in this context!

    Re: costs, staff
    How much time and money does it take to dispatch a press car for a test? When Ford let Evo take a Ford GT to Maranello, they pretty much just tossed the keys to the journalists. No entourage required. Are you seriously telling me Ferrari's UK PR arm had ZERO staff on hand? -

    -They do have staff but they are all busy with the FF launch obviously -
    If it takes *so much* time and staff for one single car, that says a lot about the lack of faith in their product. - No big deal. They are focussing on other areas right now. Ferrari got the best coverage in the history of motoring journalism with the 458. Why the hell should they spend time and money on sending their cars to Spain when the McL comes to the UK in a few months? They could also jsut send them a check....They might be Italians but not completely retarded.

    Re: anti-design
    That's a matter of personal opinion. Not everyone has to fall down dumbstruck by the sight of a 458. In fact, I'm pretty sure there are those who think it looks like shit. - Yes extreme minorities can be found every where

    "Correct but he is still using pretty much every opportunity he gets to mention where he thinks the McL is better than the 458"
    Oh, FFS. You don't think that's part of his JOB as a journalist?
    - Yes it is but it can be done in a professional trustworhty way, and it can be done in the "look-at-me-I'm-pissed-off-Chris Harris-way" Chris Chilton of Car did the same thing. So did Steve Sutcliffe of Autocar. So did Sport Auto of France, apparently. It would be pretty dumb to ignore the 458 as an obvious rival to the McLaren. Is the 458 not the benchmark of the class? - Yes - This matchup has long been awaited by supercar enthusiasts. It seems you are just buttsore because he had ANYTHING to say about the McLaren being better. - An example "The McL comes cheaper than the Ferrari" £168.500 vs. £169.000 - you see, CH just must shit on the Ferrari even though it does bad things to his own credibility. Not a serious kind of critique.

    Re: Chris Harris issue not making it to media
    If it didn't make it to the media, then how does nearly every car enthusiast forum from ferrarichat to corvetteforum, rennlist, e90post, germancarforum, nasioc, lotustalk, teamspeed, vagdrivers, clublexus, supraforums, seatcupra know about it? Even paintballers are talking about, LOL. In fact, many of his individual issues have been brought up in official print media before. - Exactly, only forums with nerds like us ..."vagdriver" and "seatcupra"...ha ha hha...thanks for emphasizing my point! At Geneva I talked to a Ferrari sales manager (I think) about the issue. In the whole UK with it's 10-12 Ferrari dealers they had ZERO clients wanting to discuss this "issue" with them. It might be a storm, but it's in a cup of water....

    Re: nobody knows about Ferrari's lockdown
    Members of PH know about it. You don't think members of ferrarichat and Club Scuderia UK know about it? Some probably do. And...I'm guessing Ferrari know about it too. As well as competitors of Car Magazine who have probably asked for the same thing. But we are not discussing this with any of them. The important thing is that I'm discussing this with you, and we both know about it. - And our knowledge and opinions makes NO difference in the big pictures.
     
  3. SCHINP:
    Wrong. Profits do have relevance in this discussion, as you continue to claim that Ferrari's paranoia and insecurity are not at the root of a conscientious decision to lock down their press fleet precisely at the moment the McLaren is garnering attention.
    So there you go, Ferrari are not worried about profitability. So why lock down their press cars? This is precisely the point with Porsche: Nissan faster on the 'Ring, but so what? They still send their cars to comparos, still lose, but who really gives a shit? They still sell. How much money do you think they lost in sending both a GT3 RS and GT2 RS to eCOTY? Do you know the reason why Ferrari didn't want both the 458 and GTO in that test?
    Every person officially associated with Ferrari in the UK or Spain are involved in the FF launch...Please. Next, you will tell me that the guys running Ferrari PR in Spain are busy doing CFD modeling for the F1 cars.

    Tell me again why Ferrari can't seem to send a 458 unattended by an F1 truck with support crew. I missed your answer the first time 2 times I asked it. They can send to the USA two 599s (one of them not even US-spec, and not coincidentally the one that was measured for performance figures) with support crew to C&D, 2 Californias to Evo for testing with support crew, but they can't let out a single 458 from a regional department?

    RE: design
    You don't have to be in an "extreme minority" to not fall down dumbstruck by the look of the 458.

    RE: Chris Harris and price
    Price was not a major point, but has some relevance in the CONTEXT of what the McLaren offers. It's merely a bonus.
    Have you even read his entire review of the McLaren? If you think he takes every opportunity to shit on the Ferrari, I think you'll be very surprised. He's already hinted twice now that the McLaren isn't the runaway Ferrari demolisher it would otherwise seem to be. If he were really biased, wouldn't he just come right out and say it?

    RE: "Exactly, only forums with nerds like us"
    ...with memberships in the 10's of thousands (if not over 100k+). Tell me again, how did you hear about Chris Harris's rant? Did he personally mail you a letter? I know I didn't get one.

    RE: "And our knowledge and opinions makes NO difference in the big pictures."
    Who the fck cares about the big pictures? You think Ferrari is of much relevance in the big picture? By that logic, none of us should be discussing on a forum because in the big picture, all of us will be dead anyway. I don't give a shit about that. I'm talking about Ferrari with YOU. If it's not of interest to YOU, then quit posting.
     
  4. HOLY #$%#ING SHIT!

    SITUATION ALL #$%#ED UP!
     
  5. GAPING ANAL RAPE
     
  6. SCHINP:
    Wrong. Profits do have relevance in this discussion, as you continue to claim that Ferrari's paranoia and insecurity are not at the root of a conscientious decision to lock down their press fleet precisely at the moment the McLaren is garnering attention. - It's not being paranoid. They are just not going to provide the cars because they don't have to. I never said Ferrari were not ARROGANT. But scared? No.

    So there you go, Ferrari are not worried about profitability. So why lock down their press cars? - There is a difference between profit and MP (marginal profit) and MP is NOT relevant in this discussion as you claimed -

    This is precisely the point with Porsche: Nissan faster on the 'Ring, but so what? They still send their cars to comparos, still lose, but who really gives a shit? They still sell. How much money do you think they lost in sending both a GT3 RS and GT2 RS to eCOTY? - Only Porsche know. Do you have a point with this question?

    Do you know the reason why Ferrari didn't want both the 458 and GTO in that test? - Yes because the 458 is faster and more modern than the GTO but double the price: What is your point?

    Every person officially associated with Ferrari in the UK or Spain are involved in the FF launch...Please. Next, you will tell me that the guys running Ferrari PR in Spain are busy doing CFD modeling for the F1 cars. - They actually ARE doing FF related stuff. Ferrari Spain has no press car (Due to my brothers professional relationship and knowledge I know about this)Could Ferrari find required staff somewhere? Probably, but why should they????

    Tell me again why Ferrari can't seem to send a 458 unattended by an F1 truck with support crew. I missed your answer the first time 2 times I asked it. - I'll try to answer for the 3rd time (let me know if you want it as a cartoon)THEY DON'T HAVE TO SEND A 458! WHY SHOULD THEY????

    They can send to the USA two 599s (one of them not even US-spec, and not coincidentally the one that was measured for performance figures) with support crew to C&D, 2 Californias to Evo for testing with support crew, but they can't let out a single 458 from a regional department? - You have to take the cars PLC into the consideration. At launches or when sales of a model are decreasing support from activites like PR is required, THEN Ferrari will allocate the required resources. Unlike what you think automotive PR is business. Not entertainment.

    RE: design
    You don't have to be in an "extreme minority" to not fall down dumbstruck by the look of the 458. - No blind will do

    RE: Chris Harris and price
    Price was not a major point, but has some relevance in the CONTEXT of what the McLaren offers. It's merely a bonus.
    Have you even read his entire review of the McLaren? If you think he takes every opportunity to shit on the Ferrari, I think you'll be very surprised. He's already hinted twice now that the McLaren isn't the runaway Ferrari demolisher it would otherwise seem to be. If he were really biased, wouldn't he just come right out and say it? He looks pretty biased to me maybe not towards McL but against Ferrari.

    RE: "Exactly, only forums with nerds like us"
    ...with memberships in the 10's of thousands (if not over 100k+). Tell me again, how did you hear about Chris Harris's rant? Did he personally mail you a letter? I know I didn't get one.
    - I saw it on facebook - the biggest community in the world. Still nobody really cares about it and the issue has not reached relevant media yet. The 100.000's of nerds rarely include the target group.

    RE: "And our knowledge and opinions makes NO difference in the big pictures."
    Who the fck cares about the big pictures? You think Ferrari is of much relevance in the big picture? By that logic, none of us should be discussing on a forum because in the big picture, all of us will be dead anyway. I don't give a shit about that. I'm talking about Ferrari with YOU. If it's not of interest to YOU, then quit posting.

    Ferrari care about their big picture drawn in the annual reports and they can do things that may piss off guys like us. I am trying to explain why I belive Ferrari do what they do -and don't


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  7. Chris Harris is biased against Ferrari...is that why he has bought at least two of them? Tell me something, SCHINP, if he were so biased against them, why would he spend money to buy them? Thank you for confirming that you have NOT read the article. Maybe you should wait for it before you slag him off, eh?

    MP...do you happen to know what the MP is on the GT-R? Last I heard, it was ZERO (still awaiting another car shared on that platform). Yeah, I'm sure Porsche are really worried about sending their slower cars for testing against the Nissan.

    The reason why Ferrari would send a car is pretty simple: to accept a challenge head on. I can only imagine that was Porsche's intent on sending both the GT3 RS and GT2 RS, both of which were new enough to have missed the previous year's eCOTY.
    Speed and being modern are not paramount to Evo's eCOTY test. Witness a Lotus winning last year. Neither is price. (599 has won before.) I doubt those can be the reasons as to why Ferrari did not send both cars. The way I heard it, having two Ferraris in test meant that at least one of them would have to be the loser. Ferrari didn't want that. And when Evo wanted to find a private GTO, well, that's when Ferrari threw a tantrum.
    How do you know the 458 is faster than the GTO? According to Ferrari, the GTO is 1s faster around Fiorano.

    Doesn't matter if you saw it on Facebook. It didn't just appear there out of nowhere. It gets there by way of a medium of information. It seems to have gotten more exposure than any one single review of the 458. And a lot of the stuff he was talking about had already been confirmed in print mags like C&D, Autocar, AMuS, Evo, Car, etc anyway.

    Target audience...what is that, only Ferrari customers? Haha.

    "No blind will do"
    At this point, I'm going to have to ask you to remove Ferrari's cock from your mouth because it's pretty absurd to think everyone has to be awestruck with the way the 458 looks. Wait, you are the same guy who thought the California beat the LP640 around Bedford, right?
     
  8. this thread makes my head hurt.
     
  9. <A BORDER="0" HREF="http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?displayFAQ=y"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pitlane/emoticons/amazed.gif"></A>
     

Share This Page