Re: Let's Talk about Tuned Cars Now - 2000 Dodge Hennessey Viper

Discussion in '1999 Lamborghini Diablo GT' started by Christianmc, Aug 9, 2002.

  1. Scottie, never compare R&T performance tests of two different cars done by different drivers at different times. According to R&T, the 360 Modena has a better slalom speed than the Ferrari F50, which is obviously not true. What does that tell you about the cars? Absolutely nothing! Unless they were done in a side-by-side comparison you won't get any conclusive results.

    The F40 was availiable in Katillac or non-Katillac version; The lighter, non-Kat version was only availiable in Europe. Not so with the Diablo. In the US, the stock '98 Diablo SV has done 1/4 mile in even 11.9 seconds, faster than even Quatroroute. Ask any one who has driven the cars, and you will find out that the '98 and '99 Diablo SV is faster than the Ferrari F50 beyond 60 mph.

    Another thing you also forgot to consider is that the Diablo is availiable with optional long gear ratios. R&T may be using these long gear ratios.

    Something that needs to be corrected, though is that the newer Viper GTS laps the nurbrurgring 1 second behind the Diablo SV: Viper GTS 8 min, 10 seconds, Diablo SV 8 min 9 seconds (not even sure if it was the new SV). But it is still apparently obvious that the Diablo is faster than the Viper or has better handeling, but probably both.

    Quatrouroute in fact got 1.10 g out of their Diablo GT. That is a fact. Another fact is that the US Diablo GT is no different than the European one. Even R&T got 0.99 g out of their Diablo 6.0, and you think the Diablo GT can not match that?

    When stating the "facts," be aware that other "facts" exist. You can like one car better than another, but the way you are comparing them is un-fair, and (no offence) pretty cheap. The Diablo is faster around a track and in the straits than a Viper GTS and a Z06.
     
  2. Scottie, never compare R&T performance tests of two different cars done by different drivers at different times. According to R&T, the 360 Modena has a better slalom speed than the Ferrari F50, which is obviously not true. What does that tell you about the cars? Absolutely nothing! Unless they were done in a side-by-side comparison you won't get any conclusive results.

    The F40 was availiable in Katillac or non-Katillac version; The lighter, non-Kat version was only availiable in Europe. Not so with the Diablo. In the US, the stock '98 Diablo SV has done 1/4 mile in even 11.9 seconds, faster than even Quatroroute. Ask any one who has driven the cars, and you will find out that the '98 and '99 Diablo SV is faster than the Ferrari F50 beyond 60 mph.

    Another thing you also forgot to consider is that the Diablo is availiable with optional long gear ratios. R&T may be using these long gear ratios.

    Something that needs to be corrected, though is that the newer Viper GTS laps the nurbrurgring 1 second behind the Diablo SV: Viper GTS 8 min, 10 seconds, Diablo SV 8 min 9 seconds (not even sure if it was the new SV). But it is still apparently obvious that the Diablo is faster than the Viper or has better handeling, but probably both.

    Quatrouroute in fact got 1.10 g out of their Diablo GT. That is a fact. Another fact is that the US Diablo GT is no different than the European one. Even R&T got 0.99 g out of their Diablo 6.0, and you think the Diablo GT can not match that?

    When stating the "facts," be aware that other "facts" exist. You can like one car better than another, but the way you are comparing them is un-fair, and (no offence) pretty cheap. The Diablo is faster around a track and in the straits than a Viper GTS and a Z06.



    You can trust car magazines more then you can trust the Factorys claims , and especially when the people who perform these tests are Race cars drivers,Factorys make claims that they can Rarely live up to , Ferrari claimed 202 mph and 1.20 G on the skid pad for the F50 , and with a Ferrari race driver Andy Evans who raced the 333 SP's, road tested his Personal car the best he could do was 194 mph and that was in 146 rpms into the redline , and on the skidpad he did 0.95 G , didn't match Ferraris claims the F50 is not as great as a car as Ferrari claimed and thats just facts, you even notice when the F50 first came out magazines NEVER listed the skidpad numbers or top speed , it was always estimated or n/a , and you think thats by accident?
    The F50 never lived up to the hype its that simple Car and Driver is the ONLY magazine that has done a top speed test on the F50 and i mean Andy Evans is more then qualified to do the driving.
    Paul Frere a former Formula 1 driver and Le Mans winner tested the Diablo GT as well as Phill Hill a former Formula 1 World Champion , these are not road test editors for a magazines , these are race winners more qualified to drive these cars then the rest of us owners included and the best they could manage was 0.97 G and a Slamom speed of 61.5 mph and its not because they lack skill.

    Now the Diablo may be faster around " The Ring " by 1 second lets chalk that up to better brakes then the GTS but it BEAT the Viper none the less , but 1 second thats NOT saying much for Lamborghini especially when it costs $300,000 and its 60 seconds faster then a $65,000 Viper.
    So its perfectly fair to compare cars that have been tested to there limits by profesional race cars drivers in magazines ,who are more qualified then the owners to push these cars to there limits.

     
  3. Do you know the difference between "nimble" and good handeling? The Diablo is not nimble like a Porsche GT3 or GT2, but the Diablo is still a pretty good handeling car. And the reason I mentioned the Nurburgring is because it is a BIG handeler's course. Youre not going to make good times at the Nurburgring if you don't have good handeling, plain and simple so the Diablo needs to have pretty good handeling to make it at the nurburgring, especially to compensate for its size. Brakes are important too. Does the Diablo SV have better handeling than the Viper GTS? Don't know, but I never said it did. I would bet it does, though.

    I assure you that the Diablo SV does 1/4 mile in 12.0 seconds. The Ferrari F50 does 1/4 miles in 12.1-11.9 seconds, recorded in various magazines. And whoever has driven the cars says that beyond 60 mph, the Diablo SV is faster than the F50. the Diablo SV does 0-60 in 4.0 seconds, the F50 in 3.7 seconds because the F50 is lighter and has better grip at the start; but after that the Diablo SV is faster. Motor Trend tested the Diablo 6.0 1/4 mile at 11.8 seconds at 121 mph, and everyone who has driven those cars as well knows that the Diablo SV is faster than the Diablo 6.0 beyond 60 mph. There is absolutely no reason for you to be doubting Quatroroute. If you think the tests are worth ZERO than maybe you should stop only Reading Road and Track. And do you even have the R&T magazine that tested the Diablo SV? I think you're getting that information from a website that I've seen also, so don't say you know how they tested the DIablo SV.

    Do you actually think that the Viper GTS and Corvette Z06 have better handeling than the Diablo GT and Ferrari F50? That's a little too much to be claiming. The Diablo GT has an updated suspension from the SV. You need to read other things besides Road and Track; they are not the only magazine. And despite the fact that Proffesional drivers drive some cars, these proffesional drivers still have to act according to R&T policies. When dealing with privately owned cars, and even cars from a dealer (which if you were not aware also had to buy the cars), they can't take the car to the extreme. Motor Trend tested their Diablo 6.0 strait from the factory, and they ended up with accurate results of what the car can really do. Does that make sense?

    The best magazines I would recomend are Motor Trend, Evo magazine, and Quatroroute; they don't always give the same results, but they are at least consistent with themselves.

    And See here:
    Motor Trend 0.93 g's for the 550 Marenello, and 68 mph on the slalom. R&T apperantly does 0.97 g for the Diablo GT and 61 mph on the slalom. 61 mph is pretty slow, I don't care who is driving. And that just shows that g's don't tell you barely anything about slalom speeds. You think it's impossible for the Diablo GT to do 1.10 g and for another magazine to do 1.07 g for a better handeling car (Porsche GT1)? First of all, g's don't even matter, and there are plenty of cars that have tested with a lot of g's and don't handel as well as other cars. Second of all, two different magazines tested them, so to compare those is nonsense! R&T did only 0.86 g for the Mclaren F1, and I think Mario Andretti was the one who tested it, no? But C&D did 1.01 g for the Mclaren F1; And then, R&T did only 1.02 g for the Porsche GT2, but the Porsche GT2 handels SOOOO much better than the Mclaren F1, so why are they so close(1.02 compared to 1.01)? Because they were two different magazines, and it doesn't mean anything! And see here: R&T themselves tested the Diablo 6.0 (with no expert driver as far as I know) and did 0.99 g. Now obviously the GT will beat that, so enough with the "0.97 g" stuff. In fact there is a picture of that magazine that tested the Diablo GT in this forum, and I'm putting it up again in here. It is in Italian, but what it basically says is that they were tested at and average speed of *speed given at the bottom of the picture* on a 180 ft. curve.

     
  4. how can u compare a dodge against an italian classic?
    u can't.if lambo put that much hp in the diablo, lets see what would happen.they need 800hp just to beat it?comon!<!-- Signature -->
     
  5. Oh, If nobody yet has mentioned, yes, the Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT is faster than the GT. Who cars? 800 hp out of a twin turbo 8.0 liter engine? Lamborghini could easily top that. Put a Turbo on the GT and I'd like to see any car in the world keep up.
     
  6. Why? Why do people keep comparing a American tuned V8 street dragsters to Europe's V12 race cars. Both cars are great, but they're meant for two different reasons. When you think of an italian sports car, you think of luxury, style, and a race track. When you think of an American Muscle car you start thinking of power, torque, and a Main Street. We build our muscle cars for street fun first, and circuits second. Sometime's we get a highly tuned car that can compete well with Italians on the track and sometimes we don't. Now let's stop bickering, admit that each set of cars has it's strong point, and go out and have some fun.
     

  7. I would have to agree with "i be rollin 336" The background, engine configuration and purpose on both cars are completly different. Both are great cars but they are in 2 separate leages!!!!!!

     
  8. i keep hearing talk about the "legacy" and "style" of lambo. i think that most of them are ugly, mind you that is my personal opinion, but how can you go and say that the viper doesnt have syle. i think the viper is one of the most agressive and most beautiful cars ever made. and everybody keeps saying that if lambo built a race version of a diablo it would beat an 800tt. well then why dont they. personally i dont think they could. but who cares the viper is obviously faster and the diablo it a great italian supercar. enjoy them both
     
  9. hey lwrider20, r u smokin something, cause i gotta tell u something, YOU ARE STUPID, y u ask?
    1. vipers suck compared to Lambos, even the bicycle!!!!!
    2. Lambos and Ferraris have been ruling the streets and the race track for years, so get over it, nothing is gonna change!!
    3. dont come into a Lambo forum and shoot ur mouth off retard, u have no clue what u r saying, so please leave!!!!!!!!
    4. Lambo is faster than a tuned viper, u dont believe, read about the coatl, yeah it aint the prettiest thing in the world, but with NO TURBOS it destroys the venoms top speed, all u would see of the lambo is its tail lights as they dissappear into the night!!!!!!!! oh and the 0-60 would be beaten 2 as ur records were all done on slicks, not street legal!!!!
     
  10. the comparison between the two is just ridiculous. they are not meant for the same thing. the fast viper is just a test of how far the car can be pushed. the lamborghini GT is a slight modification on a car that is meant to be a car that can be driven on the weekends or driven daily with putting on a smalll amount of miles. whether the viper is faster or not, is therefore a ridiculous statement because it is not meant to do what the lamborghini can do. also, sit inside of a lamborghini -- it is meant to give luxury with a taste of the extremity of a race car. the viper is just a raw cheap American interior of basically a racing car. if you just wanna talk about sheer speed, then just go ahead, but then theres no point of talking because 0-60 speed is shown in the numbers not in opinion. if you wanna talk about which car is better, then go ahead. but dont confuse issues because speed isnt the only factor to a car.
     
  11. hey sniper theres no need to cry about it. i believe this particular forum was about the 800tt versus the lambo. obviously the 800tt is faster than the lambo. now i dont care if the viper lacks interior style it is still a faster car and a very sweet looking car if you ask me. and i do believe i am entitled to my own opinion. correct.
     
  12. Lamborghini Diablo Coatl.....239.2mph
    Dodge Viper Venom 800tt.....235mph

    see the difference??????

    as for acceleration

    Lamborghini Diablo Coatl.....0-60.....3.1secs
    Dodge Viper Venom 800tt......0-60.....2.4secs(on slicks, not on street legal tyres)

    compare when on street legal tyres!!!!!!
     
  13. Let's Talk about Tuned Cars Now - 2000 Dodge Hennessey Viper Ven

    Sorry, guys.

    I know you might get disappointed of me picking an American Muscle car over my favorite Lamborghini, but...facts are facts.

    If we are comparing incomparable cars like Diablo GT and Murc, let's keep comparing incomparable cars.

    You talk about faster, more aggressive, better HP, better Torque, right?

    Well, here you go! For twice less the price that's my pick for the TUNED RACE CAR of all times.

    I repeat, I am not comparing Lamborghini to Dodge...NO WAY!
    I am comparing 1999 Diablo GT Race Car to a 2000 Dodge Hennessey Viper Venom 800TT Race Car based on stats ONLY, not the QUALITY!!!

    P.S. People who talked about Diablo GT being so much FASTER!!! are not realizing one thing - they will NEVER, EVER, EVER feel the difference between 3.7 and 3.8 second run from 0-60. Even the most experienced racecar driver won't! The ONLY way to tell is if you digitally clock the run! This is the ONLY way.
    And both cars can very easily overturn 0.1-second advantage, whenever their computer is reprogrammed to use certain amount of fuel injected per second, let's say.

    These are equally outstanding cars in all aspects. I will take any one of them with my eyes closed, but don't forget that a new model is still a new model, and since Lamborghini is discontinuing Diablo, well, we just all have to get along now!
    <!-- Signature -->
     
  14. I don't fully understand your point, but I THINK I agree with you.

    But, to be 100% "proper," you would compare twin-turbo's to other twin-turbos. Namely, the Diablo VTTT. But you made it clear you are comparing a tuned car to an un-tuned car, so that's fine.
     
  15. Actually you are right, now lets take a look at service records shall we? what about comfort? is all your looking at for compairing cars the power? if thats the case I've got a cardboard box with a V10 and some wheels for sale. No offence intended but this point is very well ummmmm uneducated<!-- Signature -->
     
  16. man i would take the 800tt viper over this, or any lambo anyday of the week. the dodge would spank this thing. and could you just imagine the svs stryker viper against this it would kill it.
     
  17. Dodge Vipers and Chevy vets are no match for any Italian exotic supercar. Face it. The only way these american muscle cars can outrun a Lamborghini or Ferrari is if they are tuned up! Italian exotics combine power, luxury and beauti like no other manufacturer in the world!!!
     
  18. listen you dumbass #$%#in american! you must be blind because this lamborghini goes 0-60 in 3.7 seconds not 3.8! and why the hell do you compare a tuned race car to very high quality stock italian supercar??? imagine how bad this lamborghini would murder your little american viper if it was a high tuned race car!!! the viper would be no match!!! so take your little uneducated comments and put them where the sun dont shine because they are worth nothing!!!

    ps: if you would have been smart you would of seen the viper that does 0-60 in 2.4 seconds! but that is another story<!-- Signature -->
     
  19. I'd take the dodge because it would be faster in a straight line yes, an extra 225hp goes a long way. I think the drastic HP difference makes it a unfair comparisson. Probably better to compare a non turbo viper with a race package, then the cars would be on even ground.
    But i'm sure they both develop more or less the same lateral grip, however the lambo would be more agile with a quicker turn in, exit, and better stability.
    So around a track I don't think this lambo would lag far behind a 800TT. <!-- Signature -->
     
  20. How can you even compare the grace and unmatched beauty of this Italian piece of art to a dodge, how dare you, 3.7, 3.8 who cares the style of Italian supercars is unrivaled.<!-- Signature -->
     
  21. <!-- QUOTE --><center><hr width="90%"></center><blockquote><i>Quote from Aston Martini</i>
    <b>listen you dumbass #$%#in american! you must be blind because this lamborghini goes 0-60 in 3.7 seconds not 3.8! and why the hell do you compare a tuned race car to very high quality stock italian supercar??? imagine how bad this lamborghini would murder your little american viper if it was a high tuned race car!!! the viper would be no match!!! so take your little uneducated comments and put them where the sun dont shine because they are worth nothing!!!

    ps: if you would have been smart you would of seen the viper that does 0-60 in 2.4 seconds! but that is another story</b></blockquote><center><hr width="90%"></center><!-- END QUOTE -->

    You can't judge 0-60 times based on a .1 sec difference. The Lamborghini you're talking about will not do a 3.7 sec run each time. There are many factors that determine a car's acceleration times.<!-- Signature -->
     
  22. Factory claims don't often match the real thing. In the Case of the GT, 0-60 time is MUCH FASTER than they claim. The 6.0 does a 0-60 time of 3.4 seconds in test runs, and the GT is even more.
     
  23. The New Viper GTS laps the nurburgring 1 second behind the Diablo SV, still not even sure if it was the '96 SV. The Lamborghini Diablo SV was a 520 hp, which I think makes it a '97 SV. If it was the 97 SV, then the '98 and '99 SV which is equiped with Variable-Valve timing would perhaps take off another second or two off, because it is considerably faster. These tests were not performed by Lamborghini enthusiasts. There is not one course where the Viper GTS will ever beat a Diablo SV. The nurburgring (a big handelers course) would have been its best chance, seeing as you say it has "good" handeling, but it failed anyhow, even though the Diablo has a high center of gravity for a car that low.

    The F50 is an extremely competetive car. R&T had a slower slalom speed for the F50 than they did for the 360 Modena, but the F50 handels better than the Modena, no question. The Modena's suspension is much softer. R&T will never honestly tell you that the Modena handels better, despite their two different tests. They know which one is faster. The Ferrari F50 has the same lap times on many courses as the Diablo GT and the Ferrari F40. The F50 had a better lap time than the Mclaren F1 on some courses! The Viper does not come close to any of them.

    No one ever said anything about factory declarations. You're getting off the subject. The Diablo GT is infact NOT much faster than the '99 Diablo SV (compare 1/4 mile times '99 Diablo SV best 11.9 at 122 mph, Diablo GT best, 11.8 seconds at 124 mph), but the Diablo GT has a newer and imroved suspension.

    When it comes to R&T and C&D, don't expect them to push their Italian Imported, privately owned cars to the Limit. How much g did Road and Track get out of their 360 Modena and 550 Barcheta? No more than 0.93 g. Other magazines got 1.08 g out of their 550 Marenello. And how much g did R&T get out of their Mclaren F1? A pathetic 0.86 g!! (And I believe it was Mario Andretti, correct me if I'm wrong). Car and driver got 1.01 g out of their Mclaren F1. And the Diablo GT, as I already said, got 1.10 g despite R&T 0.97 g. The Ferrari F50 undoubtably handels better than 0.95 gs as well. The magazines your quoting as proof are not the only performances out their. That's not how you compare cars.


    The Lamborghini may be faster around the nurbergring 1 second but thats NOT saying much for lamborghini is it , and out of every magazine i have seen when the F50 was first tested it NEVER did a top speed test or slalom or skidpad it was always estimates and factory claims, ever wonder why ?
    because the F50 is NOT as great as Ferrari claimed it was , and you keep saying that the cars are faster or handle better then they are listed , if thats the case where are you getting that information?? from laps around the Nubergring? where are you getting your info from so perhaps i can check up on it ? i mean Road & Track and Car and Driver can be trusted more the a Factory claim .
     
  24. Christianmc

    i just seen the times of the SV around the ring and its like you said 1 second faster , but the Viper it says is a UK-Spec with 406 hp ?? and obviously no ABS, and the SV they arent sure if it has ABS i don't think that it does , but the Viper GTS is rated at 450 hp i don't know if the UK spec is de-tuned , but it says only 406hp, the Diablo GT is faster then the two , but again like i said 1 second isnt much especially considering its a UK spec with less horsepower, now i would lobe to see a US spec GTS and a 2002 Z06, i think they would be pretty good times. and notice NO F50s or Mclaren F1s i wonder why it would be the best palce for both cars.
     
  25. Your clinging on to the Diablo GT is faster around the Nubergring then that means its a better handling car , your wrong that are many reasons why one car would be faster around the Nurbergring , one would be the driver , two acceleration, three top speed , four brakes ,five chassis set up,its NOT just handling and remember the Diablo GT has 125 more horsepower then the Viper GTS maybe that would be a factor ,and you quote Quatroroute times and there not even yours , i seen the Diablo GT Vs the 550 Maranello and both seem to have just a tad to high skidpad numbers , i mean were these cars on slicks??? i mean the GT did a 1.10 g ??? i mean get serious Road & Track tested The Champion Porsche 911 GT1 Race car in their September 1998 issue and with full race slicks it generated a 1.07 G , Oh thats right American Magazines don't push the cars even though Steve Millen was doing the driving , now are you gonna tell me that the Diablo GT tested in Quatroroute is better handling then a GT1 Porsche race car??? like it was posted before Laborghinis are not known as the greatest handling cars in the world and certianly NOT better then a Porsche GT1 race car.
    Now say Quatroroute is right and the Diablo GT does the skidpad in 1.10 g and its such a great handling car , why is it SLOWER around the Nurbergring then a Porsche GT2 ?? i mean the Diablo GT should destroy the Porsche GT2 because it does the skidpad in 1.10 g and the Porsche GT2 does it in 1.02 G , Oh wait the Diablo GT has more horsepower then the Porsche GT2 , lets see the Diablo GT has 575@7300 rpms to the Porsche 456@5700 rpms , wow why isnt it faster around the Nurbergring ?? it should be seeing the Diablo GT weighs 3200 lbs and the Porsche GT2 weighs 3350lbs.
    So that shows you its more then just great handling around ANY race track, and the Diablo SV did beat a Viper GTS by 1 second its again its NOT saying much for the Lamborghini considering the price and the fact it has 530 horsepower compared to the Vipers UK specs 406 HP.
    So lets recap shall we ? The Diablo GT is lighter , handles better , and has a lot more horsepower then a Porsche GT2 , and yet its slower around the Nurbergring?? and who said Lamborghinis cant handle?
    Now you can defend what this car can or can not do but i grow tired of proving you wrong,even with your owns facts.
     

Share This Page